Mystic Theurge Question: - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Mystic Theurge Question:

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
insignia6
Apr 17, 2008 19:22:31 I've just been wondering if the Mystic Theurge is considered a spellcasting class of either Divine or Arcane(Players choice), or just neither at all; mainly because a friend of mine is trying to do some loophole shenanigans with a True Necromancer combo, first thing when I heard it I automatically smelled fish.

I just need a quick answer, thanks in advance.

(Not sure if this IS the right section, I apologize if I've posted this where it shouldn't of been)
#2
wih
Apr 17, 2008 19:36:05 What is he trying to do?
If he's trying to use Mystic Theurge to advance True Necromancer or vice versa, you cannot use a "+1 to spellcasting class" to advance a class that gives the same - it has to advance a class that has an actual spell list.
#3
shigunaru
Apr 17, 2008 19:39:23
I've just been wondering if the Mystic Theurge is considered a spellcasting class of either Divine or Arcane(Players choice), or just neither at all; mainly because a friend of mine is trying to do some loophole shenanigans with a True Necromancer combo, first thing when I heard it I automatically smelled fish.

I just need a quick answer, thanks in advance.

(Not sure if this IS the right section, I apologize if I've posted this where it shouldn't of been)

It is not a spellcasting class, it is a prestige class that augment both arcane and divine casting at each level (so, a wiz 5/cleric 5/MT 10 is a 15th level arcane caster and a 15th level divine caster).

Hope this help.
#4
insignia6
Apr 17, 2008 19:45:52 Basically he's trying to gain the most level's he possible can with the True Necromancers and Theurge abilities - uniting them for more effectiveness.

Mystic Theurge: Add +1 to existance Arcane/Divine casting class.

True Necromancer:
1st: Add +1 to existing Arcane Spellcasting Class
2nd: Add +1 to existing Divine Spellcasting Class
3rd: Add +1 to existing Divine and Arcane Spellcasting Class
Etc.

He's trying to use the True Necromancers ability on the Mystic Theurge so it technically goes up a level, thus increasing both his Arcane and Divine classes at the same time, then once he hits level 3 put both into Theurge.

If Mystic Theurge isn't considered(I'm hoping) a spellcasting class of either Arcane or Divine then he can't necessarily do so.

So all in all he basically doubles the levels he gets. Which I don't believe works but I'm hoping for some confirmation here that it doesn't.
#5
wih
Apr 17, 2008 19:53:43 +1 to effective spellcaster level has to be on a class that has a spell list. It cannot be used to increase the casting on a class that increases another class's casting.
#6
altpersona
Apr 17, 2008 19:53:48 whats the whole build look like so far?
#7
shigunaru
Apr 17, 2008 19:53:55 Mystic theurge hasn't got a spell progression itself. It can't be progressed by another prestige class the way your player is trying to do. Only prestige classes with a proper spell progression, like Sublime Chord and Ur Priest, can be advanced by other prestige classes.

In short: your friend is very very wrong ;)

EDIT:
+1 to effective spellcaster level has to be on a class that has a spell list. It cannot be used to increase the casting on a class that increases another class's casting.

Ninjaed
#8
altpersona
Apr 17, 2008 20:05:49 unless someone has a faster way into true necro... and i assume its possible..

a preccois apperentise (command undead)
wiz/sorc/x 1
cleric 3
x 1
true necro 14
mt 1

has

lvl 16 casting arcane
lvl 18 casting divine

add the feat whose name escapes me for +3 caster lvl not to exceed your hd

and you get 19th lvl arcane and 18 cleric or 16 arcane and 20 cleric..
#9
insignia6
Apr 17, 2008 20:10:05 Thank you for your answers, I really appreciate it.
#10
holymist
Apr 17, 2008 21:45:37 I'm the person who Insignia is referring to, I was hoping that would work, the build i was trying to do was

Wizardx3
Clericx3
M.T. x1
True Necromancer x13

That way it would be a very cheap way to be lvl 20 caster if both arcane and divine spells, at lvl 20. lol

Not arguing or anything but where does it state that, +1 to effective spellcaster level has to be on a class that has a spell list. It cannot be used to increase the casting on a class that increases another class's casting.
#11
wih
Apr 17, 2008 21:51:09 Mystic Theurge doesn't have a caster level associated with it, or a spell list associated with it. It's increase of another class's spellcasting is a class feature, not a spell list. Now, if you were taking a class that improved class features (such as Uncanny Trickster or Legacy Champion) then what you're trying to do would work.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 insignia6 Apr 17, 2008 19:22:31	I've just been wondering if the Mystic Theurge is considered a spellcasting class of either Divine or Arcane(Players choice), or just neither at all; mainly because a friend of mine is trying to do some loophole shenanigans with a True Necromancer combo, first thing when I heard it I automatically smelled fish. I just need a quick answer, thanks in advance. (Not sure if this IS the right section, I apologize if I've posted this where it shouldn't of been)
#2 wih Apr 17, 2008 19:36:05	What is he trying to do? If he's trying to use Mystic Theurge to advance True Necromancer or vice versa, you cannot use a "+1 to spellcasting class" to advance a class that gives the same - it has to advance a class that has an actual spell list.
#3 shigunaru Apr 17, 2008 19:39:23	I've just been wondering if the Mystic Theurge is considered a spellcasting class of either Divine or Arcane(Players choice), or just neither at all; mainly because a friend of mine is trying to do some loophole shenanigans with a True Necromancer combo, first thing when I heard it I automatically smelled fish. I just need a quick answer, thanks in advance. (Not sure if this IS the right section, I apologize if I've posted this where it shouldn't of been) It is not a spellcasting class, it is a prestige class that augment both arcane and divine casting at each level (so, a wiz 5/cleric 5/MT 10 is a 15th level arcane caster and a 15th level divine caster). Hope this help.
#4 insignia6 Apr 17, 2008 19:45:52	Basically he's trying to gain the most level's he possible can with the True Necromancers and Theurge abilities - uniting them for more effectiveness. Mystic Theurge: Add +1 to existance Arcane/Divine casting class. True Necromancer: 1st: Add +1 to existing Arcane Spellcasting Class 2nd: Add +1 to existing Divine Spellcasting Class 3rd: Add +1 to existing Divine and Arcane Spellcasting Class Etc. He's trying to use the True Necromancers ability on the Mystic Theurge so it technically goes up a level, thus increasing both his Arcane and Divine classes at the same time, then once he hits level 3 put both into Theurge. If Mystic Theurge isn't considered(I'm hoping) a spellcasting class of either Arcane or Divine then he can't necessarily do so. So all in all he basically doubles the levels he gets. Which I don't believe works but I'm hoping for some confirmation here that it doesn't.
#5 wih Apr 17, 2008 19:53:43	+1 to effective spellcaster level has to be on a class that has a spell list. It cannot be used to increase the casting on a class that increases another class's casting.
#6 altpersona Apr 17, 2008 19:53:48	whats the whole build look like so far?
#7 shigunaru Apr 17, 2008 19:53:55	Mystic theurge hasn't got a spell progression itself. It can't be progressed by another prestige class the way your player is trying to do. Only prestige classes with a proper spell progression, like Sublime Chord and Ur Priest, can be advanced by other prestige classes. In short: your friend is very very wrong ;) EDIT: +1 to effective spellcaster level has to be on a class that has a spell list. It cannot be used to increase the casting on a class that increases another class's casting. Ninjaed
#8 altpersona Apr 17, 2008 20:05:49	unless someone has a faster way into true necro... and i assume its possible.. a preccois apperentise (command undead) wiz/sorc/x 1 cleric 3 x 1 true necro 14 mt 1 has lvl 16 casting arcane lvl 18 casting divine add the feat whose name escapes me for +3 caster lvl not to exceed your hd and you get 19th lvl arcane and 18 cleric or 16 arcane and 20 cleric..
#9 insignia6 Apr 17, 2008 20:10:05	Thank you for your answers, I really appreciate it.
#10 holymist Apr 17, 2008 21:45:37	I'm the person who Insignia is referring to, I was hoping that would work, the build i was trying to do was Wizardx3 Clericx3 M.T. x1 True Necromancer x13 That way it would be a very cheap way to be lvl 20 caster if both arcane and divine spells, at lvl 20. lol Not arguing or anything but where does it state that, +1 to effective spellcaster level has to be on a class that has a spell list. It cannot be used to increase the casting on a class that increases another class's casting.
#11 wih Apr 17, 2008 21:51:09	Mystic Theurge doesn't have a caster level associated with it, or a spell list associated with it. It's increase of another class's spellcasting is a class feature, not a spell list. Now, if you were taking a class that improved class features (such as Uncanny Trickster or Legacy Champion) then what you're trying to do would work.