Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 bergtann Aug 16, 2008 9:48:23	You know, someone may have pointed this out before, but I just realized it, so I thoght I'd post it: After Sage Advice confirmed the Versatile Spellcaster/Heighten spell (Or othe +1 level metamagic) combo, a human Sorcerer 1/Favored Soul 1 with those two feats can go straight into Mystic Theurge. No dodgy business, nothing complicated, and not even broken. As those two classes lag a spell level. As a bonus, the Versatile Spellcaster feat may allow a bit of mix-and-match between divine and arcane casting.
#2 Dictum_Mortuum Aug 16, 2008 10:22:07	Can you link to the sage confirmation? This is indeed interesting.
#3 xoraxx Aug 16, 2008 10:37:35	You know, someone may have pointed this out before, but I just realized it, so I thoght I'd post it: After Sage Advice confirmed the Versatile Spellcaster/Heighten spell (Or othe +1 level metamagic) combo, a human Sorcerer 1/Favored Soul 1 with those two feats can go straight into Mystic Theurge. No dodgy business, nothing complicated, and not even broken. As those two classes lag a spell level. As a bonus, the Versatile Spellcaster feat may allow a bit of mix-and-match between divine and arcane casting. How does he get 6 ranks in Knowledge (arcana/religion) in 2 levels? (max ranks at lvl 2 = 5) EDIT: I did find the sage's advice though (its the only hit when I searched on "Versatile"): Q: Can a sorcerer combine Versatile Spellcasting with a metamagic feat to cast a spell whose level is higher than the level of spells he’d normally be able to cast? A: This is possible. For example, a 1st level sorcerer using the Versatile Spellcaster feat can give up two 1st-level spells to cast extended shield.
#4 woodenbandman Aug 16, 2008 11:00:26	Hmm. The implications of this are pretty awesome. Maybe someone can throw together a gish for this? I think it would look a bit like Favored Soul1/Sorceror1/Mystic Theurge8/Geomancer10, maybe? Or, since you don't necessarily gain 9th level spells, you could take it as Geomancer 6/ something else 4... Doesn't seem like such a bad trade. 9th level divine or arcane casting, no chance of spell failure, semi-respectable BAB, access to all those goodies like divine power and stuff like that... as well as loads of free natural weapons.
#5 bergtann Aug 16, 2008 16:50:24	How does he get 6 ranks in Knowledge (arcana/religion) in 2 levels? (max ranks at lvl 2 = 5) Good point. For some reason I remembered it as requiring 4 in each. So you need 3 levels to fill the skill requirements. It is a pity it cant be combined with Arcane Hierophant.
#6 carnivore Aug 16, 2008 18:00:10	the only drawback.... you need to have Heighten Spell to actually make this work... since : 1) a Sorceror does not Know any 2nd lvl spells to Cast until 4th lvl 2) a Favored Soul does not Know any 2nd lvl spells to Cast until 4th lvl and Metamagic effects do not raise the level of a Spell, except for Heighten this would work much better for a Warmage or Beguiler, since they already Know all spells of every level that is on thier list... they just cant cast them yet ..... Versatile Caster eliminates that problem the other problem ..... Versatile Caster requires 3rd lvl spells , IIRC sorry :D
#7 carnivore Aug 16, 2008 18:12:46	a fun trick.... Warmage 6/ Rainbow Servant 10 with Versatile spellcaster.... can cast any Warmage or Cleric Spell up to 9th lvl :D
#8 bergtann Aug 17, 2008 5:38:43	the only drawback.... you need to have Heighten Spell to actually make this work... since : this would work much better for a Warmage or Beguiler, since they already Know all spells of every level that is on thier list... they just cant cast them yet ..... Versatile Caster eliminates that problem the other problem ..... Versatile Caster requires 3rd lvl spells , IIRC sorry :D Heighten spell is fine. It is a useful feat anyway. And there is no problem using Beguiler in place of Sorcerer. However, as I wrote below, you don't technically need Mystic Theurge with those classes. Just take one level of Beguiler or Warmage, and then progress another spellcasting class. However, my copy of "Races of the Dragon" only says Versatile Spellcaster requires the ability to cast spells spontaneously. Nothing about 3rd level ones. a fun trick.... Warmage 6/ Rainbow Servant 10 with Versatile spellcaster.... can cast any Warmage or Cleric Spell up to 9th lvl :D Yes...much like they can without Versatile Spellcaster? Same thing for a Beguiler. The trick with Versatile Spellcaster is that with one level in Warmage or Beguiler, and progress another spellcasting class, you can fuel increasingly high spells from those class lists from your spell slots in the other class. But that is more theoretical optimization. DMs wont let you get away with that, RAW or not.
#9 tshern Aug 17, 2008 7:59:33	a fun trick.... Warmage 6/ Rainbow Servant 10 with Versatile spellcaster.... can cast any Warmage or Cleric Spell up to 9th lvl :D According to the Sage Rainbow Servant is a 6/10 casting class. No 9th level spells for you.
#10 bergtann Aug 17, 2008 9:42:32	I believe the latest Sage ruling on the class is that under RAW it is 10/10, but with the recomendation that 6/10 is more balanced and is the recommended progression. Anyway, I think he means that at level 20, you can use Versatile Spellcaster to cast a spell heightened to level 9, which opens up all the Warmage and Cleric spells of level 9 by Warmage class text.
#11 frostwolf Aug 28, 2008 11:43:34	Okay, So how about Sorc/Shugenjia? Still Divine, Still Spontaneous, Still reliant on CHA AND they get all Knowledges as Class Skills. Shu-1, Sorc-1, MT-1? Would that work? Oh Nevermind. Your still only able to get 5 ranks in each. Well is there something else that can be entered at third level?