Natural Weapon dmg build - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Natural Weapon dmg build

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
astrazeneca
May 09, 2009 7:49:59 me and my friends started new high lvl campaign.
Start lvl is 15 and all have to be humans.
We are using 3.5 books, and we are allowed to use all of them, except ToB.

I have used some time now to make one natural weapon dmg build, but i just cant do it. I know there is a way to make one out of MoI, but I'm not so familiar with this book.

I do not ask you to create one for me, but I need ideas and tips.
Can u pls help?
#2
lormador
May 09, 2009 8:23:44 A natural weapon build?

Polymorph. Use Incantatrix to Persist it.

In two levels you'll have Shapechange.
#3
Senevri
May 09, 2009 8:39:37 alternatively, a Psywar monster. Elan/Rapidstrike cheese?
Hail to the King?
#4
emy
May 09, 2009 8:47:01 If you need ideas, I'd check out previous natural weapon using builds, such as the King of Smack, PRESIDENT of Smack, or Tashalotran God of Smack.

Basically here's what I know:
Get as many natural weapons as you can, or get natural weapons with nice base damage (Claws of the Beast)
Increase their size as much as possible. Improved Natural Attack (feat), Expansion (power), Giant Size (spell), Greater Mighty Wallop (spell), Morphic Weapons (class ability). Size scaling improves damage quite a lot.
Use standard melee stuff to improve damage or hit rate. Like pounce or similar, enchanted weapons via Amulet of Natural Attacks (savage species), and power attack/arcane strike/whatever.
Rapidstrike/Imp.R.strike are nice.
#5
atomickitkat
May 09, 2009 11:25:36 If you can swing Mad Faith to enter Geomancer early, there's about 5 different forms of Natural Attacks you can pick up via Drift: 2 types of Gore, possibly overlap each other, pair(note that if you have more than one pair of hands, you could claim 1 claw per hand) of hand-claws, pair of rakes, various bites, possibly with poison, a stinger(tail?), and bear hugs. Rage too.
#6
CantripN
May 09, 2009 13:04:15 A Favored Soul 4 (Favored of Fiends) / Geomancer 10 / Sacred Exorcist 1 works.

Attacks:
Favored of Fiends - 2 Claws, 1 Bite.
Geomancer - 1 Gore, 2 Rakes, 1 Stinger, Trip with every hit/Pounce, 60' Fly (Good), 1/hour - move 10xSpeed when charging.
Spell - Girallon's Blessing (2 Claws)

Feats:
H - Versatile Spellcaster
1 - Southern Spellcaster
3 - Multiattack
6 - Initiate of Lathander
9 - Extend Spell
12 - Persistant Spell
15 - DMM: Persistant Spell

Spells:
Orisons (9 Known) - Detect Magic, Read Magic, Silvered Weapon, Create Water, Mending, XXX, XXX, XXX, XXX + Light, No Light...

1 (6 Known) - Lesser Vigor, Blood Wind, Protection from Evil, Shield of Faith, XXX, XXX + Divine Favor, Magic Missile + Cure Light Wounds, Light of Lunia, Rosemantle, Handfire...

2 (6 Known) - Close Wounds, Spiritual Weapon, Resist Energy, Divine Insight, Lesser Restoration, Shield Other + Sun Bolt, Light of Faith...

3 (6 Known) - Darkfire, Girallon's Blessing, Mass Conviction, Magic Vestment, Divine Retaliation, Fell the Greatest Foe + Daylight, Wall of Light, Checkmate's Light, Sunrise, Light of Wisdom...

4 (6 Known) - Divine Power, Venom Bolt, Delay Death, Revenance, Assay Spell Resistance, Dampen Magic + Death Ward, Freedom of Movement + Mark of the Enlightened Soul, Aura of the Sun, Light of Purity...

5 (5 Known) - Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, Revivify, Shield of Lathander, Surge of Fortune, Bewildering Mischance + Teleport + Light of Xymor, Dawn Shroud, Mass Cure Light Wounds...

6 (4 Known) - Heal, Superior Resistance, Greater Dispel Magic, Energy Immunity + Sun Scepter, Lucent Lance...

7 (3 Known) - Shield of the Archons, Fortunate Fate, Control Weather + Radiant Assault, Rejuvenating Light...

My old version - http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=17036221
#7
Wyvernhand
May 09, 2009 13:13:39 Monk2/PsyWar13 would be great. Using Monastic Training and Tashalatora (both from Secrets of Sarlona), you would have the UAS damage of a 15th level monk with the Manifesting of a 13th level PsyWar at ML15. Then nab Improved Natural Attack (MM1) and Snapkick (Tome of Battle) and Expansion up to Huge and you'll maul people with your like, 12d6 fists, not to mention Str damage. You'll have Pounce on command with Psionic Lion's Charge and all the abuses you can combine with that and Link Power. Nab Improved Grapple as a Monk bonus feat and you'll be able to squeeze the life out of dragons! Grip of Iron (from PsyWar) plus a Torc of the Titans and Armbands of Might (both from MIC) will give you a grapple mod that'll be silly. And thats not even specializing, since you'll still be able to punch the daylights out of people. Take the Scorpions Grasp feat from Sandstorm, and you'll be able to do BOTH AT ONCE! You can even then take Fling Enemy, if you want to go all out, and smack people with their own pimp.
#8
CantripN
May 09, 2009 13:24:30 ps:
Is it just me, or is Geomancer a perfect class for Gestalt? It doesn't violate any of the rules, and lets you combine your spellcasting very well - even going so far as allowing DMM for Arcane spells. Having it all based off of one stat, be it WIS, INT or CHA, is very good.
#9
Wyvernhand
May 09, 2009 13:29:55
ps:
Is it just me, or is Geomancer a perfect class for Gestalt? It doesn't violate any of the rules, and lets you combine your spellcasting very well - even going so far as allowing DMM for Arcane spells. Having it all based off of one stat, be it WIS, INT or CHA, is very good.

Nope, I've noticed that too, quite a while ago.

Wizard20//Cleric3/Geomancer7/Dweomerkeeper10 is pretty freakin solid. I'd probably go with Travel and Destiny to get the best domain abilities, since you aren't exactly poaching spells from your domain list...
#10
vangrue
May 15, 2009 2:38:04 Alternatively, Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Totemist 11/Bear Warrior 5/Warshaper 3 can get gobs of natural attacks in a round, gets to make them all on a charge (Lion totem barbarian saves you some time in Totemist, and from having to use a chakra bind on sphinx claws to get pounce), immunity to stunning and crits, morphic reach, and better rage than a normal barbarian with Mighty Rage (total boost with bear warrior and warshaper gives +20 str, +2 dex, and +12 con, or +4 str and con even when not raging). You wind up with most of the chakras open for binding (plus double bind for totem chakra), not a ton of essentia but you can get a few extra points from feats (some of which are rather useful), and when you rage, you can be a large bear with two legs, four arms, a tail that shoots needles, wings, tentacles, and whatever else you want. How many other people get to say that? :D

Unfortunately, this build isn't as good as it is with a Shifter (from Eberron), since they can take Shifter Savagery to boost all natural weapons by two size categories for damage when raging and shifting simultaneously.

Were you to go with this build, I suggest going: Lion Totem Barb 1/Totemist 8/Bear Warrior 1/Warshaper 3/Bear Warrior +4/Totemist +3

Lion Totem is from Complete Champion, Totemist from Magic of Incarnum, Bear Warrior and Warshaper from Complete Warrior.
Besides Power Attack (and Extra Rage), flavor with feats to taste.
#11
dr_rocktopus
May 15, 2009 3:30:41
ps:
Is it just me, or is Geomancer a perfect class for Gestalt? It doesn't violate any of the rules, and lets you combine your spellcasting very well - even going so far as allowing DMM for Arcane spells. Having it all based off of one stat, be it WIS, INT or CHA, is very good.

+
#12
true_shinken
May 15, 2009 7:25:13 All hail the...
#13
ravidge
May 15, 2009 12:55:26 here is one I am currently using and it is amazing fun: Human Ranger6 (Shifter variant from UA)/Warshaper4/Primeval10. I have found it odd I don't see anyone using Primeval honestly I think it is a cherry. rather then like most polymorph spells you do not loose your stats, instead you subtract 10 (for even) 11 (for odd) stats then add it too your own scores.
Alternatively you could use a goliath or similar base for powerful build and then go down the same path... doing this and using say a polar bear (Which yes does not technically fit the recs for animal form but it is what I was allowed to have) you end with some really nasty hitting power and are ridiculous in a grapple.
then there are always druid and druid variants for natural weapon specialization characters.
#14
phoenix00
May 15, 2009 13:20:19
ps:
Is it just me, or is Geomancer a perfect class for Gestalt? It doesn't violate any of the rules, and lets you combine your spellcasting very well - even going so far as allowing DMM for Arcane spells. Having it all based off of one stat, be it WIS, INT or CHA, is very good.

Very good, but I wouldn't say perfect.

Perfect would be something that gives you multiple actions, high skill points, all skills as class skills, ability to ignore damage reduction as well as spell resistance, good reflex save, a few spells, etc... aka a factotum.

Or the even more powerful artificer, I persist spells on all spell lists and completely screw up the wealth by level guidelines, for I can craft with no repercussion, time, gp, and xp are not barriers to me. Oh I can also give myself insight bonuses and luck bonuses to any skill at any time.
#15
CantripN
May 15, 2009 13:22:33 Well, yeah, Factotum/Artificer may be better, but it's still fun. You don't pay anything for it other than opportunity cost (and a low one, at that).
#16
dr_rocktopus
May 15, 2009 14:02:36
Or the even more powerful artificer, I persist spells on all spell lists and completely screw up the wealth by level guidelines, for I can craft with no repercussion, time, gp, and xp are not barriers to me. Oh I can also give myself insight bonuses and luck bonuses to any skill at any time.

I think Iron Kingdoms and the Arcane Mechanic got this right, where-as I feel the artificer was the Big-Ol-****-Up in Eberron. I love Eberron, I understand that it needs artificers to work fluff-wise, but I just wish they worked differently and in a less bizarre fashion. Or that someone had proof read their table past level five.

My big issue is that they leave no middle ground between weak and horribly broken unless you intentionally gimp your character. If your kung fu is even moderately strong, your artificer is likely to be incredibly over-powered compared to your group.

However, I'm going to go ahead and mention that oddly, you can use factotum and ur-priest to qualify for Geomancer, then push ur-priest casting with geomancer for an incredibly powerful melee beast who has more actions than you know what to do with.
#17
hijaxx
May 15, 2009 14:26:04 that, doctor, is what i usually classify as A.W.E.S.O.M.E
Arch-
Wonderfully
Evil
Sickness
Of
Munchkinism
Extraordinaire
#18
jopustopin
May 15, 2009 23:04:31 Level 1: Sorcerer
Level 2: Barbarian (Lion Totem: Pounce)
Level 3: Fighter
Level 4: Scout
Level 5: Fighter
Level 6 - 15: Dragon Disciple

32 Point Buy:
Str: 29 (+8 dragon disciple) (+3 lv: 4,8,12)
Dex: 12
Con: 16 (+2 Dragon Disciple)
Int: 12 (+2 Dragon Disciple)
Wis: 8
Cha: 14 (+2 Dragon Disciple)

H: Draconic Heritage
1: Dragon Tail
3: Extra Rage
3f: Improved Initiative
5f: Powerful Charge (Eberron Campaign Setting) or (if the DM does not like Eberron) Chosen Foe (Drow of the Underdark)
6: Reckless Rage
9: Multi-Attack
12: Improved Multi-Attack
15: Extra Rage/Dragon Breath/Greater Powerful Charge

Spells Known:
0th: Detect Magic, Read Magic, Repair Minor Damage, Silent Portal
1st: Fist of Stone, Nerveskitter

Spells Per Day:
0th: 5
1st: 11

BAB: 11
Rages per day: 3 or 5 depending on level 15 feat

If you were naked at level 15 and you decided to cast fist of stone before charging and raging 60 feet into that which you wish to attack:

With Chosen Foe
Pounce: Claw+29/Claw+29/Slam+29/Bite+29/Tail+29
Damage: Claw (1d4+7 +1d6) Claw (1d4+7 +1d6) Slam (1d4+15+1d6) Bite (1d6+15+1d6) Tail (1d6+7+1d6)

With Powerful Charge
Pounce: Claw+28/Claw+28/Slam+28/Bite+28/Tail+28
Damage: Claw (1d4+7 +1d6 +1d8) Claw (1d4+7 +1d6+1d8) Slam (1d4+15+1d6+1d8) Bite (1d6+15+1d6+1d8) Tail (1d6+7+1d6+1d8)

Will you win initiative? Probably. +10 to Initiative

Magical item Suggestions: Beast Claws (Savage Species), Necklace of Natural Weapon (Savage Species)

*anyone notice the spell Fist of Stone is horribly written. First it does not say you add the strength enhancement to damage, then in the example it tells you to add your new strength score for damage. Then in the example it says that you should add your strength( or 1.5 times your strength if it's the only attack you make), but if you make other attacks it's a secondary attack. But for secondary attacks you only add half your strength score... Basically when could you ever just add your strength to damage. Either it's your primary attack, or it's a secondary attack.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 astrazeneca May 09, 2009 7:49:59	me and my friends started new high lvl campaign. Start lvl is 15 and all have to be humans. We are using 3.5 books, and we are allowed to use all of them, except ToB. I have used some time now to make one natural weapon dmg build, but i just cant do it. I know there is a way to make one out of MoI, but I'm not so familiar with this book. I do not ask you to create one for me, but I need ideas and tips. Can u pls help?
#2 lormador May 09, 2009 8:23:44	A natural weapon build? Polymorph. Use Incantatrix to Persist it. In two levels you'll have Shapechange.
#3 Senevri May 09, 2009 8:39:37	alternatively, a Psywar monster. Elan/Rapidstrike cheese? Hail to the King?
#4 emy May 09, 2009 8:47:01	If you need ideas, I'd check out previous natural weapon using builds, such as the King of Smack, PRESIDENT of Smack, or Tashalotran God of Smack. Basically here's what I know: Get as many natural weapons as you can, or get natural weapons with nice base damage (Claws of the Beast) Increase their size as much as possible. Improved Natural Attack (feat), Expansion (power), Giant Size (spell), Greater Mighty Wallop (spell), Morphic Weapons (class ability). Size scaling improves damage quite a lot. Use standard melee stuff to improve damage or hit rate. Like pounce or similar, enchanted weapons via Amulet of Natural Attacks (savage species), and power attack/arcane strike/whatever. Rapidstrike/Imp.R.strike are nice.
#5 atomickitkat May 09, 2009 11:25:36	If you can swing Mad Faith to enter Geomancer early, there's about 5 different forms of Natural Attacks you can pick up via Drift: 2 types of Gore, possibly overlap each other, pair(note that if you have more than one pair of hands, you could claim 1 claw per hand) of hand-claws, pair of rakes, various bites, possibly with poison, a stinger(tail?), and bear hugs. Rage too.
#6 CantripN May 09, 2009 13:04:15	A Favored Soul 4 (Favored of Fiends) / Geomancer 10 / Sacred Exorcist 1 works. Attacks: Favored of Fiends - 2 Claws, 1 Bite. Geomancer - 1 Gore, 2 Rakes, 1 Stinger, Trip with every hit/Pounce, 60' Fly (Good), 1/hour - move 10xSpeed when charging. Spell - Girallon's Blessing (2 Claws) Feats: H - Versatile Spellcaster 1 - Southern Spellcaster 3 - Multiattack 6 - Initiate of Lathander 9 - Extend Spell 12 - Persistant Spell 15 - DMM: Persistant Spell Spells: Orisons (9 Known) - Detect Magic, Read Magic, Silvered Weapon, Create Water, Mending, XXX, XXX, XXX, XXX + Light, No Light... 1 (6 Known) - Lesser Vigor, Blood Wind, Protection from Evil, Shield of Faith, XXX, XXX + Divine Favor, Magic Missile + Cure Light Wounds, Light of Lunia, Rosemantle, Handfire... 2 (6 Known) - Close Wounds, Spiritual Weapon, Resist Energy, Divine Insight, Lesser Restoration, Shield Other + Sun Bolt, Light of Faith... 3 (6 Known) - Darkfire, Girallon's Blessing, Mass Conviction, Magic Vestment, Divine Retaliation, Fell the Greatest Foe + Daylight, Wall of Light, Checkmate's Light, Sunrise, Light of Wisdom... 4 (6 Known) - Divine Power, Venom Bolt, Delay Death, Revenance, Assay Spell Resistance, Dampen Magic + Death Ward, Freedom of Movement + Mark of the Enlightened Soul, Aura of the Sun, Light of Purity... 5 (5 Known) - Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, Revivify, Shield of Lathander, Surge of Fortune, Bewildering Mischance + Teleport + Light of Xymor, Dawn Shroud, Mass Cure Light Wounds... 6 (4 Known) - Heal, Superior Resistance, Greater Dispel Magic, Energy Immunity + Sun Scepter, Lucent Lance... 7 (3 Known) - Shield of the Archons, Fortunate Fate, Control Weather + Radiant Assault, Rejuvenating Light... My old version - http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=17036221
#7 Wyvernhand May 09, 2009 13:13:39	Monk2/PsyWar13 would be great. Using Monastic Training and Tashalatora (both from Secrets of Sarlona), you would have the UAS damage of a 15th level monk with the Manifesting of a 13th level PsyWar at ML15. Then nab Improved Natural Attack (MM1) and Snapkick (Tome of Battle) and Expansion up to Huge and you'll maul people with your like, 12d6 fists, not to mention Str damage. You'll have Pounce on command with Psionic Lion's Charge and all the abuses you can combine with that and Link Power. Nab Improved Grapple as a Monk bonus feat and you'll be able to squeeze the life out of dragons! Grip of Iron (from PsyWar) plus a Torc of the Titans and Armbands of Might (both from MIC) will give you a grapple mod that'll be silly. And thats not even specializing, since you'll still be able to punch the daylights out of people. Take the Scorpions Grasp feat from Sandstorm, and you'll be able to do BOTH AT ONCE! You can even then take Fling Enemy, if you want to go all out, and smack people with their own pimp.
#8 CantripN May 09, 2009 13:24:30	ps: Is it just me, or is Geomancer a perfect class for Gestalt? It doesn't violate any of the rules, and lets you combine your spellcasting very well - even going so far as allowing DMM for Arcane spells. Having it all based off of one stat, be it WIS, INT or CHA, is very good.
#9 Wyvernhand May 09, 2009 13:29:55	ps: Is it just me, or is Geomancer a perfect class for Gestalt? It doesn't violate any of the rules, and lets you combine your spellcasting very well - even going so far as allowing DMM for Arcane spells. Having it all based off of one stat, be it WIS, INT or CHA, is very good. Nope, I've noticed that too, quite a while ago. Wizard20//Cleric3/Geomancer7/Dweomerkeeper10 is pretty freakin solid. I'd probably go with Travel and Destiny to get the best domain abilities, since you aren't exactly poaching spells from your domain list...
#10 vangrue May 15, 2009 2:38:04	Alternatively, Lion Totem Barbarian 1/Totemist 11/Bear Warrior 5/Warshaper 3 can get gobs of natural attacks in a round, gets to make them all on a charge (Lion totem barbarian saves you some time in Totemist, and from having to use a chakra bind on sphinx claws to get pounce), immunity to stunning and crits, morphic reach, and better rage than a normal barbarian with Mighty Rage (total boost with bear warrior and warshaper gives +20 str, +2 dex, and +12 con, or +4 str and con even when not raging). You wind up with most of the chakras open for binding (plus double bind for totem chakra), not a ton of essentia but you can get a few extra points from feats (some of which are rather useful), and when you rage, you can be a large bear with two legs, four arms, a tail that shoots needles, wings, tentacles, and whatever else you want. How many other people get to say that? :D Unfortunately, this build isn't as good as it is with a Shifter (from Eberron), since they can take Shifter Savagery to boost all natural weapons by two size categories for damage when raging and shifting simultaneously. Were you to go with this build, I suggest going: Lion Totem Barb 1/Totemist 8/Bear Warrior 1/Warshaper 3/Bear Warrior +4/Totemist +3 Lion Totem is from Complete Champion, Totemist from Magic of Incarnum, Bear Warrior and Warshaper from Complete Warrior. Besides Power Attack (and Extra Rage), flavor with feats to taste.
#11 dr_rocktopus May 15, 2009 3:30:41	ps: Is it just me, or is Geomancer a perfect class for Gestalt? It doesn't violate any of the rules, and lets you combine your spellcasting very well - even going so far as allowing DMM for Arcane spells. Having it all based off of one stat, be it WIS, INT or CHA, is very good. +
#12 true_shinken May 15, 2009 7:25:13	All hail the...
#13 ravidge May 15, 2009 12:55:26	here is one I am currently using and it is amazing fun: Human Ranger6 (Shifter variant from UA)/Warshaper4/Primeval10. I have found it odd I don't see anyone using Primeval honestly I think it is a cherry. rather then like most polymorph spells you do not loose your stats, instead you subtract 10 (for even) 11 (for odd) stats then add it too your own scores. Alternatively you could use a goliath or similar base for powerful build and then go down the same path... doing this and using say a polar bear (Which yes does not technically fit the recs for animal form but it is what I was allowed to have) you end with some really nasty hitting power and are ridiculous in a grapple. then there are always druid and druid variants for natural weapon specialization characters.
#14 phoenix00 May 15, 2009 13:20:19	ps: Is it just me, or is Geomancer a perfect class for Gestalt? It doesn't violate any of the rules, and lets you combine your spellcasting very well - even going so far as allowing DMM for Arcane spells. Having it all based off of one stat, be it WIS, INT or CHA, is very good. Very good, but I wouldn't say perfect. Perfect would be something that gives you multiple actions, high skill points, all skills as class skills, ability to ignore damage reduction as well as spell resistance, good reflex save, a few spells, etc... aka a factotum. Or the even more powerful artificer, I persist spells on all spell lists and completely screw up the wealth by level guidelines, for I can craft with no repercussion, time, gp, and xp are not barriers to me. Oh I can also give myself insight bonuses and luck bonuses to any skill at any time.
#15 CantripN May 15, 2009 13:22:33	Well, yeah, Factotum/Artificer may be better, but it's still fun. You don't pay anything for it other than opportunity cost (and a low one, at that).
#16 dr_rocktopus May 15, 2009 14:02:36	Or the even more powerful artificer, I persist spells on all spell lists and completely screw up the wealth by level guidelines, for I can craft with no repercussion, time, gp, and xp are not barriers to me. Oh I can also give myself insight bonuses and luck bonuses to any skill at any time. I think Iron Kingdoms and the Arcane Mechanic got this right, where-as I feel the artificer was the Big-Ol-****-Up in Eberron. I love Eberron, I understand that it needs artificers to work fluff-wise, but I just wish they worked differently and in a less bizarre fashion. Or that someone had proof read their table past level five. My big issue is that they leave no middle ground between weak and horribly broken unless you intentionally gimp your character. If your kung fu is even moderately strong, your artificer is likely to be incredibly over-powered compared to your group. However, I'm going to go ahead and mention that oddly, you can use factotum and ur-priest to qualify for Geomancer, then push ur-priest casting with geomancer for an incredibly powerful melee beast who has more actions than you know what to do with.
#17 hijaxx May 15, 2009 14:26:04	that, doctor, is what i usually classify as A.W.E.S.O.M.E Arch- Wonderfully Evil Sickness Of Munchkinism Extraordinaire
#18 jopustopin May 15, 2009 23:04:31	Level 1: Sorcerer Level 2: Barbarian (Lion Totem: Pounce) Level 3: Fighter Level 4: Scout Level 5: Fighter Level 6 - 15: Dragon Disciple 32 Point Buy: Str: 29 (+8 dragon disciple) (+3 lv: 4,8,12) Dex: 12 Con: 16 (+2 Dragon Disciple) Int: 12 (+2 Dragon Disciple) Wis: 8 Cha: 14 (+2 Dragon Disciple) H: Draconic Heritage 1: Dragon Tail 3: Extra Rage 3f: Improved Initiative 5f: Powerful Charge (Eberron Campaign Setting) or (if the DM does not like Eberron) Chosen Foe (Drow of the Underdark) 6: Reckless Rage 9: Multi-Attack 12: Improved Multi-Attack 15: Extra Rage/Dragon Breath/Greater Powerful Charge Spells Known: 0th: Detect Magic, Read Magic, Repair Minor Damage, Silent Portal 1st: Fist of Stone, Nerveskitter Spells Per Day: 0th: 5 1st: 11 BAB: 11 Rages per day: 3 or 5 depending on level 15 feat If you were naked at level 15 and you decided to cast fist of stone before charging and raging 60 feet into that which you wish to attack: With Chosen Foe Pounce: Claw+29/Claw+29/Slam+29/Bite+29/Tail+29 Damage: Claw (1d4+7 +1d6) Claw (1d4+7 +1d6) Slam (1d4+15+1d6) Bite (1d6+15+1d6) Tail (1d6+7+1d6) With Powerful Charge Pounce: Claw+28/Claw+28/Slam+28/Bite+28/Tail+28 Damage: Claw (1d4+7 +1d6 +1d8) Claw (1d4+7 +1d6+1d8) Slam (1d4+15+1d6+1d8) Bite (1d6+15+1d6+1d8) Tail (1d6+7+1d6+1d8) Will you win initiative? Probably. +10 to Initiative Magical item Suggestions: Beast Claws (Savage Species), Necklace of Natural Weapon (Savage Species) *anyone notice the spell Fist of Stone is horribly written. First it does not say you add the strength enhancement to damage, then in the example it tells you to add your new strength score for damage. Then in the example it says that you should add your strength( or 1.5 times your strength if it's the only attack you make), but if you make other attacks it's a secondary attack. But for secondary attacks you only add half your strength score... Basically when could you ever just add your strength to damage. Either it's your primary attack, or it's a secondary attack.