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Nature Dude....

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
rasmus8678
Jun 05, 2008 14:42:43 Well we are starting a campaign and im thinking of a monk/druid/fist of nature (VoP), the only problem is i have never made a druid. is it worth it to even have the druid? a VoP monk with fist of nature is pretty powerful by itself and i was wondering what would be the best build with druid or without.

Almost forgot, no Bo9s and the dm frowns upon arcane spell casting.
#2
carnivore
Jun 05, 2008 14:48:33 with a VOP....... try this:

Monk 2/ Druid 17/ Fist of the Forest 1........

not in that order(monk first then change alignment to Neutral Good, then druid then FoN as soon as you qualify)

thats all you need

:D
#3
braithwaite
Jun 05, 2008 14:59:13 Well, as with most builds, VoP won't be as good as a good selection of magic items, but if items are limited or if you want it for theme reasons, it isn't too bad.

The joy of Monk and FotF are that they improve some of the weaknesses of your wild shape. If you make this, it should be a wild shape build. Something like

Monk 1 (Improved Grapple)
Druid 5
FotF 1
Druid to 20.

Stats should be Con, Wis, Int, Cha, Str, Dex in that order, but with at least a 13 strength for power attack. Your real goal is to be something like a bear or tiger with Con and Wisdom added to its ac, a really high grapple check and 9th level druid spellcasting. FotF2 gives you magic natural weapons, but you can cast greater magic fang on yourself by that level (and share it with your animal companion) and it lasts for hours.
#4
carnivore
Jun 05, 2008 15:04:42 i would usually always suggest 2 levels of Monk .... the second level Gives a Lot:
[indent]
+1 BAB
+1 Fort save
+1 Ref save
+1 Will save
Evasion
Combat Reflexes or Deflect Arrows [/indent]

:D
#5
tshern
Jun 05, 2008 15:18:52 Another level of Druid gives you +10 of Shapechange.
#6
eldariel
Jun 05, 2008 15:20:44 Yes, but the level of Druid gets you Wildshape, Druidic casting, Animal Companion et al. a level earlier. Saves are hardly an issue, Evasion mostly just applies to HP damage (and is therefore rather trivial as you can just cram a Heal in there at some point), and both of the feats are rather mediocre.

Monk 1/Druid 19 with VoP tends to be stronger - there're simply very few levels that could beat what a level of Druid gives. What is this mysterious Fist of Nature though? Fist of the Forests? FoTF is decent for the Constitution to AC, so take it if you want to create an utter AC monster, but generally a level of Druidic Everything is just Really Really Good⁚, so it's a big trade off.
#7
carnivore
Jun 05, 2008 15:27:48 good points .... i agree :

Monk 1/ Druid 18/ Fist of the Forest 1 ... very nice

:D
#8
rasmus8678
Jun 05, 2008 15:41:05 Thanks for the help, i was wondering if i did just play a monk/fotf VoP what would be the best race and what stats should i focus on?

and VoP is great because my DM does not like magic items at all. last campaign we where geard with i think ,10k gp worth of stuff at lvl 15.
#9
eldariel
Jun 05, 2008 16:08:25 Monk VoP seems like a great idea at first until you read the fineprint. You will never:
-Fly, Burrow, Swim or generally move in any way other than walking and skill checks.
-Pierce DR/Chaotic, Evil or any elementals
-Properly be able to fight incorporeals (save for the once-in-a-lifetime Etherealness)

So no, I'd say it's not worth it. Generally, for VoP to work out at higher levels, you need Magic to make up for the shortcomings of your physical form. That's why Druid makes for a fine VoP-character; you're pretty much independent of items to start with so you get all the VoP-bonuses with very few of the penalties. Basically, you'd shine early on and then fade into obscurity as you can't even touch good half of the encounters.

With the one level of Monk, you can make up for the one nigh' must have item (Monk's Belt, for Wis to AC) along with a handy feat and Flurry (usable in Wildshape forms!).

If you really, really wanted to play a VoP Monk though, Human is always a good race. Other than that, look for Wis and Con-bonuses. You should prioritise Wisdom and pick up Intuitive Attack Exalted Feat. Str secondary, but you get everything (AC, to hit, Stunning Fists, etc.) off Wis, so it's the primary stat.

You'd still suffer of MAD (multi ability dependancy, basic flaw of the Monk) and such, but you'd at least make up for some of it.
#10
pfooti
Jun 05, 2008 16:49:19 EDIT--- misread the quoted post. Sorry....

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 rasmus8678 Jun 05, 2008 14:42:43	Well we are starting a campaign and im thinking of a monk/druid/fist of nature (VoP), the only problem is i have never made a druid. is it worth it to even have the druid? a VoP monk with fist of nature is pretty powerful by itself and i was wondering what would be the best build with druid or without. Almost forgot, no Bo9s and the dm frowns upon arcane spell casting.
#2 carnivore Jun 05, 2008 14:48:33	with a VOP....... try this: Monk 2/ Druid 17/ Fist of the Forest 1........ not in that order(monk first then change alignment to Neutral Good, then druid then FoN as soon as you qualify) thats all you need :D
#3 braithwaite Jun 05, 2008 14:59:13	Well, as with most builds, VoP won't be as good as a good selection of magic items, but if items are limited or if you want it for theme reasons, it isn't too bad. The joy of Monk and FotF are that they improve some of the weaknesses of your wild shape. If you make this, it should be a wild shape build. Something like Monk 1 (Improved Grapple) Druid 5 FotF 1 Druid to 20. Stats should be Con, Wis, Int, Cha, Str, Dex in that order, but with at least a 13 strength for power attack. Your real goal is to be something like a bear or tiger with Con and Wisdom added to its ac, a really high grapple check and 9th level druid spellcasting. FotF2 gives you magic natural weapons, but you can cast greater magic fang on yourself by that level (and share it with your animal companion) and it lasts for hours.
#4 carnivore Jun 05, 2008 15:04:42	i would usually always suggest 2 levels of Monk .... the second level Gives a Lot: [indent] +1 BAB +1 Fort save +1 Ref save +1 Will save Evasion Combat Reflexes or Deflect Arrows [/indent] :D
#5 tshern Jun 05, 2008 15:18:52	Another level of Druid gives you +10 of Shapechange.
#6 eldariel Jun 05, 2008 15:20:44	Yes, but the level of Druid gets you Wildshape, Druidic casting, Animal Companion et al. a level earlier. Saves are hardly an issue, Evasion mostly just applies to HP damage (and is therefore rather trivial as you can just cram a Heal in there at some point), and both of the feats are rather mediocre. Monk 1/Druid 19 with VoP tends to be stronger - there're simply very few levels that could beat what a level of Druid gives. What is this mysterious Fist of Nature though? Fist of the Forests? FoTF is decent for the Constitution to AC, so take it if you want to create an utter AC monster, but generally a level of Druidic Everything is just Really Really Good⁚, so it's a big trade off.
#7 carnivore Jun 05, 2008 15:27:48	good points .... i agree : Monk 1/ Druid 18/ Fist of the Forest 1 ... very nice :D
#8 rasmus8678 Jun 05, 2008 15:41:05	Thanks for the help, i was wondering if i did just play a monk/fotf VoP what would be the best race and what stats should i focus on? and VoP is great because my DM does not like magic items at all. last campaign we where geard with i think ,10k gp worth of stuff at lvl 15.
#9 eldariel Jun 05, 2008 16:08:25	Monk VoP seems like a great idea at first until you read the fineprint. You will never: -Fly, Burrow, Swim or generally move in any way other than walking and skill checks. -Pierce DR/Chaotic, Evil or any elementals -Properly be able to fight incorporeals (save for the once-in-a-lifetime Etherealness) So no, I'd say it's not worth it. Generally, for VoP to work out at higher levels, you need Magic to make up for the shortcomings of your physical form. That's why Druid makes for a fine VoP-character; you're pretty much independent of items to start with so you get all the VoP-bonuses with very few of the penalties. Basically, you'd shine early on and then fade into obscurity as you can't even touch good half of the encounters. With the one level of Monk, you can make up for the one nigh' must have item (Monk's Belt, for Wis to AC) along with a handy feat and Flurry (usable in Wildshape forms!). If you really, really wanted to play a VoP Monk though, Human is always a good race. Other than that, look for Wis and Con-bonuses. You should prioritise Wisdom and pick up Intuitive Attack Exalted Feat. Str secondary, but you get everything (AC, to hit, Stunning Fists, etc.) off Wis, so it's the primary stat. You'd still suffer of MAD (multi ability dependancy, basic flaw of the Monk) and such, but you'd at least make up for some of it.
#10 pfooti Jun 05, 2008 16:49:19	EDIT--- misread the quoted post. Sorry....