Nature Ranger - need help fixing issues. - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Nature Ranger - need help fixing issues.

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Tetsuoh
Aug 20, 2013 22:48:01
Hello all and ty to those who have helped so far. I am making a new thread because the old one focused on a character that in all honesty is not what he started out being, and who in truth - died.

The character is fighter 4 / Ranger 6 - and the gm will not allow any further retraining at the moment.

He choose an eagle as his companion as he is the groups scout.

He is TWF but that is not an issue in this discussion as it has already been handled.

My character does not follow a church and despises the idea.

My character is Chaotic Neutral.

All books are available including dragon magazine but everything must pass by the gm.

THE ISSUES.

1. I feel he is lacking in spellcasting and seek to gain better, but wish to remain a nature type caster. (in truth I find the ranger spellcasting in itself lacking)

2. My character has just seen his horse revived and seeks to take it as a second animal companion, I am trying to figure the best way to accomplish this within what else I am looking for.

3. I want to keep at least a decent BAB progression - the character is fundamentally a melee fighter.

4. I am considering a Druid or Druid style class dip but I do NOT want wildshape. Shapeshifting has all but ruined this characters life.

I have seen many options and have so far found them mostly lacking. I understand normally that qualifies as a "hes wants his cake and to eat it to" scenario. But I guess I just find that what I am trying to do shouldn't be difficult but is. There a resounding lack of prestige classes that fit the ranger subtype. And nearly ALL of the druid prc's focus on wild shape. I honestly find it a bit insulting. There is no love for the wilderness man. The human in touch with nature. Its all elves or shapeshifters or fey.

anyways, on with what ive seen and why i didnt care for them.

Beastmaster - okay nice but no spellcasting at all and am not really interested in any of its class abilities other its class stacking with druid for companion bonuses and wild empathy.

Order of the arcane sword - I am not interested in him learning arcane spellcasting, I'm sorry but I'm just not.

Mystic Ranger - this was decent as its spell progression was at least mildly more impressive. But at the cost of an animal companion. So its a consideration at least.

I just cannot see where to go on this anymore.

I am sorry if I sound standoffish at any point or if my opinions offend. I have been having difficulty with this character but am loving the story he is in.

#2
NineInchNall
Aug 21, 2013 1:10:08 Well, let's see. There are ways to get rid of wild shape. It seems like punching yourself in the crotch, but whatever floats your boat.

There's the www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/varia..." title="www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/varia...">Swift Hunter variant druid:

Druid

The druid might choose to give up her wild shape ability in exchange for becoming a swift and deadly hunter.

Gain

Bonus to Armor Class when unarmored (as monk, including Wisdom bonus to AC), fast movement (as monk), favored enemy (as ranger), swift tracker (as ranger), Track feat (as ranger).

Lose

Armor and shield proficiency, wild shape (all versions).

Mystic Ranger has full BAB. You can get an animal companion back with a dip into Beastmaster. So Mystic Ranger 6/Fighter 4/Beastmaster 1 would fit all your desiderata, and then you could continue as Mystic Ranger for the rest of time.


Really what it seems you need, though, is a fast progression spellcasting PrC. Your choices in this respect are limited, since they usually require some planning to enter. The best ones are either arcane (Nar Demonbinder or Sublime Chord) or are restricted to an alignment that you don't have (Apostle of Peace or Ur-Priest).

From what you describe, Ur-priest would fit most closely with "My character does not follow a church and despises the idea." It does require you to be evil.

However, I am really, really curious as to why you have closed off the arcane magic route. Did a wizard kick your character's dog when he was a kid? I mean, you could play your arcane magic as being a result of Natural Philosophy, since that was the original flavor of arcane magic in Greyhawk anyway. What could be more in touch with nature than developing a deep understanding of the subtle, inner forces at work between and governing the plants and animals your character loves?
#3
Tetsuoh
Aug 21, 2013 2:05:00 and yet many druid/nature spells are either higher lvl as arcane or are not even available.

And ty I had misread Mystic Ranger - it loses Animal Companion and gains its combat styles slower.

Correcting my first post to reflect this mistake.
#4
frost.fire
Aug 21, 2013 9:11:58 The wild cohort feat from one of the wizard online articles could be up you're ally. It would atleast allow that horse to e your animal companion and scales with character level
#5
NineInchNall
Aug 21, 2013 11:10:53 It seems that you're having a hard time making the transition from low level concepts to high level ones. At low levels, "nature" is forests and exploration is "that valley past that hill over there". At high levels the scope is much grander: nature is the very planes themselves, and exploration is over (sometimes literally) infinite distances and across realities.

and yet many druid/nature spells are either higher lvl as arcane or are not even available.

Different classes have different spell lists. That doesn't at all lessen the fact that viewing arcane magic as being a part of en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_philosophy" title="en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_philosophy">Natural Philosophy means that everything you cast is at its heart a "nature" spell.

You can cast sleet storm because you learn about the way temperature, humidity, and air pressure are related.
You can cast fireball because you learn about the combustive qualities of bat guano.
You can cast scrying because you learn about how energy can be stored in various elements and information can be transferred via one of the invisible forces holding all things together.
You can cast alter self because you learn about how living things are made up of component parts, the result of eons of repeated descent with slight modification, so that various types of creatures are in some sense related.
You can cast charm monster because you learn about the way brains work as the center of thought.
You can cast plane shift because you learn about the other layers of nature, that the natural world isn't limited to forests and deserts and oceans: it includes infinite realms of fire, infinite expanses where concepts like up and down are entirely subjective, where time stands still or flows orders of magnitude more quickly.


And you learn all of this because you care about nature and want to understand it in order to deepen that appreciation.
#6
Tetsuoh
Aug 23, 2013 21:13:48 I understand your comment but the truth still remains that a good portion of the spells that I prefer with the way I run the character are divine only spells. arcane spells would help augment his damage of course but not enough to sway me from wwhat I intend for him.

I shall be allowed to retrain!!! In fact I will not need to I don't think.

After speaking to my GM and showing him what I discovered and you all have said on rangers and their prestige classes he has agreed to allow me to shift my levels in game through something he says he shall make available.

I will be going Fighter 4/ Swift Hunter 6/Beastmaster 1

The fact that I lose a spell progression lvl by taking BM1 to gain a new companion is outweighed by the amount of spellcasting he shall have available.

Now the problem is determining where to go from there. Lot of handbooks say BM4 for min maxing but I'll be honest and say I don't see why or plan to.

A continued spell progression is a given. A better BAB gain from there out would be nice.
#7
NineInchNall
Aug 23, 2013 22:25:42 The advice for going BM4 is for those that are not trying to do spellcasting.

By sticking with the Druidic 3/4 BAB for the rest of your character's life, you only lose 2 points of BAB compared to going with a full BAB class.

In other words: meaningless chump change. You can more than make up for that just with spells that buff your attack or damage. You'll probably want to pick up Practiced Spellcaster.
#8
Tetsuoh
Aug 23, 2013 22:34:51 Agreed and will probably take practised spellcaster.

I do have a question though.

My companion from BM - does it stack with the Druid levels or is that only the fact that BM will stack with Druid effective levels for determining any companions you had before taking BM?

#9
NineInchNall
Aug 24, 2013 0:36:14 Technically it only stacks with levels of classes that grant an animal companion. Since you swapped that out with the swift hunter variant, it's a no go.

That said, if I were your DM, I'd recognize that A) your animal companion would be useless if it wasn't allowed to advance, and B) you're already giving up far more power than you're getting in return with the swift hunter variant. (A) and (B) combined would convince me to let Swift Hunter levels advance the BM companion.
#10
Tetsuoh
Aug 24, 2013 1:01:48 Swift Hunter is still a druid and still grants an animal companion so I don't see why it wouldn't.

The player character still advances as a normal class except for the class ability changes.

But what I'm asking is - the BM class ability states:

If a Beastmaster already has an animal companion from another class, her beastmaster class levels stack with class levels from all other class levels that grant an animal companion.

SO, lets say we have a Druid 3/ Beastmaster 2 - with two companions.

Are BOTH companions considered to be for a druid effective lvl 8, or is the first companion (from druid)
a level 5, And only the second companion a level 8.

I'm confused because it says if you already have an animal companion that they stack but then it still gives that companion a +3 in the example but the first part of that ability seems to say that it only applies to a companion gained from being a beastmaster.

OR are they saying that when you first become a beastmaster that if you already have an animal companion that you do not gain a new one? Because if so then this isnt going to work as I intended. As I am trying to use Beastmaster to gain a second animal companion.
#11
NineInchNall
Aug 24, 2013 1:50:17 Oh, my bad. I thought Swift Hunter lost the animal companion. Derp.

So, amending my previous answer:

YES, it stacks.

As a Fighter 4/Swift Hunter 6/Beastmaster 1, your ONE animal companion will be effective Druid level 10 (6 + 1 + 3).

You don't get a second animal companion until BM4. That's a rather stupid thing to do, though, since Druid spellcasting gives us charm animal and tons of animal buffs. Since you have lots of ranks in Handle Animal, you just charm and train whatever awesome animal you want that you wouldn't even be able to get as an animal companion yet. Like a friggin' dire bear or something.

Then in 3 levels, at Swift Hunter 9, you cast awaken on your bear and Diplomacy it into being a full party member.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Tetsuoh Aug 20, 2013 22:48:01	Hello all and ty to those who have helped so far. I am making a new thread because the old one focused on a character that in all honesty is not what he started out being, and who in truth - died. The character is fighter 4 / Ranger 6 - and the gm will not allow any further retraining at the moment. He choose an eagle as his companion as he is the groups scout. He is TWF but that is not an issue in this discussion as it has already been handled. My character does not follow a church and despises the idea. My character is Chaotic Neutral. All books are available including dragon magazine but everything must pass by the gm. THE ISSUES. 1. I feel he is lacking in spellcasting and seek to gain better, but wish to remain a nature type caster. (in truth I find the ranger spellcasting in itself lacking) 2. My character has just seen his horse revived and seeks to take it as a second animal companion, I am trying to figure the best way to accomplish this within what else I am looking for. 3. I want to keep at least a decent BAB progression - the character is fundamentally a melee fighter. 4. I am considering a Druid or Druid style class dip but I do NOT want wildshape. Shapeshifting has all but ruined this characters life. I have seen many options and have so far found them mostly lacking. I understand normally that qualifies as a "hes wants his cake and to eat it to" scenario. But I guess I just find that what I am trying to do shouldn't be difficult but is. There a resounding lack of prestige classes that fit the ranger subtype. And nearly ALL of the druid prc's focus on wild shape. I honestly find it a bit insulting. There is no love for the wilderness man. The human in touch with nature. Its all elves or shapeshifters or fey. anyways, on with what ive seen and why i didnt care for them. Beastmaster - okay nice but no spellcasting at all and am not really interested in any of its class abilities other its class stacking with druid for companion bonuses and wild empathy. Order of the arcane sword - I am not interested in him learning arcane spellcasting, I'm sorry but I'm just not. Mystic Ranger - this was decent as its spell progression was at least mildly more impressive. But at the cost of an animal companion. So its a consideration at least. I just cannot see where to go on this anymore. I am sorry if I sound standoffish at any point or if my opinions offend. I have been having difficulty with this character but am loving the story he is in.
#2 NineInchNall Aug 21, 2013 1:10:08	Well, let's see. There are ways to get rid of wild shape. It seems like punching yourself in the crotch, but whatever floats your boat. There's the www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/varia..." title="www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/varia...">Swift Hunter variant druid: Druid The druid might choose to give up her wild shape ability in exchange for becoming a swift and deadly hunter. Gain Bonus to Armor Class when unarmored (as monk, including Wisdom bonus to AC), fast movement (as monk), favored enemy (as ranger), swift tracker (as ranger), Track feat (as ranger). Lose Armor and shield proficiency, wild shape (all versions). Mystic Ranger has full BAB. You can get an animal companion back with a dip into Beastmaster. So Mystic Ranger 6/Fighter 4/Beastmaster 1 would fit all your desiderata, and then you could continue as Mystic Ranger for the rest of time. Really what it seems you need, though, is a fast progression spellcasting PrC. Your choices in this respect are limited, since they usually require some planning to enter. The best ones are either arcane (Nar Demonbinder or Sublime Chord) or are restricted to an alignment that you don't have (Apostle of Peace or Ur-Priest). From what you describe, Ur-priest would fit most closely with "My character does not follow a church and despises the idea." It does require you to be evil. However, I am really, really curious as to why you have closed off the arcane magic route. Did a wizard kick your character's dog when he was a kid? I mean, you could play your arcane magic as being a result of Natural Philosophy, since that was the original flavor of arcane magic in Greyhawk anyway. What could be more in touch with nature than developing a deep understanding of the subtle, inner forces at work between and governing the plants and animals your character loves?
#3 Tetsuoh Aug 21, 2013 2:05:00	and yet many druid/nature spells are either higher lvl as arcane or are not even available. And ty I had misread Mystic Ranger - it loses Animal Companion and gains its combat styles slower. Correcting my first post to reflect this mistake.
#4 frost.fire Aug 21, 2013 9:11:58	The wild cohort feat from one of the wizard online articles could be up you're ally. It would atleast allow that horse to e your animal companion and scales with character level
#5 NineInchNall Aug 21, 2013 11:10:53	It seems that you're having a hard time making the transition from low level concepts to high level ones. At low levels, "nature" is forests and exploration is "that valley past that hill over there". At high levels the scope is much grander: nature is the very planes themselves, and exploration is over (sometimes literally) infinite distances and across realities. and yet many druid/nature spells are either higher lvl as arcane or are not even available. Different classes have different spell lists. That doesn't at all lessen the fact that viewing arcane magic as being a part of en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_philosophy" title="en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_philosophy">Natural Philosophy means that everything you cast is at its heart a "nature" spell. You can cast sleet storm because you learn about the way temperature, humidity, and air pressure are related. You can cast fireball because you learn about the combustive qualities of bat guano. You can cast scrying because you learn about how energy can be stored in various elements and information can be transferred via one of the invisible forces holding all things together. You can cast alter self because you learn about how living things are made up of component parts, the result of eons of repeated descent with slight modification, so that various types of creatures are in some sense related. You can cast charm monster because you learn about the way brains work as the center of thought. You can cast plane shift because you learn about the other layers of nature, that the natural world isn't limited to forests and deserts and oceans: it includes infinite realms of fire, infinite expanses where concepts like up and down are entirely subjective, where time stands still or flows orders of magnitude more quickly. And you learn all of this because you care about nature and want to understand it in order to deepen that appreciation.
#6 Tetsuoh Aug 23, 2013 21:13:48	I understand your comment but the truth still remains that a good portion of the spells that I prefer with the way I run the character are divine only spells. arcane spells would help augment his damage of course but not enough to sway me from wwhat I intend for him. I shall be allowed to retrain!!! In fact I will not need to I don't think. After speaking to my GM and showing him what I discovered and you all have said on rangers and their prestige classes he has agreed to allow me to shift my levels in game through something he says he shall make available. I will be going Fighter 4/ Swift Hunter 6/Beastmaster 1 The fact that I lose a spell progression lvl by taking BM1 to gain a new companion is outweighed by the amount of spellcasting he shall have available. Now the problem is determining where to go from there. Lot of handbooks say BM4 for min maxing but I'll be honest and say I don't see why or plan to. A continued spell progression is a given. A better BAB gain from there out would be nice.
#7 NineInchNall Aug 23, 2013 22:25:42	The advice for going BM4 is for those that are not trying to do spellcasting. By sticking with the Druidic 3/4 BAB for the rest of your character's life, you only lose 2 points of BAB compared to going with a full BAB class. In other words: meaningless chump change. You can more than make up for that just with spells that buff your attack or damage. You'll probably want to pick up Practiced Spellcaster.
#8 Tetsuoh Aug 23, 2013 22:34:51	Agreed and will probably take practised spellcaster. I do have a question though. My companion from BM - does it stack with the Druid levels or is that only the fact that BM will stack with Druid effective levels for determining any companions you had before taking BM?
#9 NineInchNall Aug 24, 2013 0:36:14	Technically it only stacks with levels of classes that grant an animal companion. Since you swapped that out with the swift hunter variant, it's a no go. That said, if I were your DM, I'd recognize that A) your animal companion would be useless if it wasn't allowed to advance, and B) you're already giving up far more power than you're getting in return with the swift hunter variant. (A) and (B) combined would convince me to let Swift Hunter levels advance the BM companion.
#10 Tetsuoh Aug 24, 2013 1:01:48	Swift Hunter is still a druid and still grants an animal companion so I don't see why it wouldn't. The player character still advances as a normal class except for the class ability changes. But what I'm asking is - the BM class ability states: If a Beastmaster already has an animal companion from another class, her beastmaster class levels stack with class levels from all other class levels that grant an animal companion. SO, lets say we have a Druid 3/ Beastmaster 2 - with two companions. Are BOTH companions considered to be for a druid effective lvl 8, or is the first companion (from druid) a level 5, And only the second companion a level 8. I'm confused because it says if you already have an animal companion that they stack but then it still gives that companion a +3 in the example but the first part of that ability seems to say that it only applies to a companion gained from being a beastmaster. OR are they saying that when you first become a beastmaster that if you already have an animal companion that you do not gain a new one? Because if so then this isnt going to work as I intended. As I am trying to use Beastmaster to gain a second animal companion.
#11 NineInchNall Aug 24, 2013 1:50:17	Oh, my bad. I thought Swift Hunter lost the animal companion. Derp. So, amending my previous answer: YES, it stacks. As a Fighter 4/Swift Hunter 6/Beastmaster 1, your ONE animal companion will be effective Druid level 10 (6 + 1 + 3). You don't get a second animal companion until BM4. That's a rather stupid thing to do, though, since Druid spellcasting gives us charm animal and tons of animal buffs. Since you have lots of ranks in Handle Animal, you just charm and train whatever awesome animal you want that you wouldn't even be able to get as an animal companion yet. Like a friggin' dire bear or something. Then in 3 levels, at Swift Hunter 9, you cast awaken on your bear and Diplomacy it into being a full party member.