Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 adslahnit Mar 02, 2008 1:57:25	You thought there was no way to break Magic of Incarnum? Think again. Magic of Incarnum, page 132 wrote:
#2 Nox_Noctis Mar 02, 2008 2:16:15	...It's over nine-thousand! Anyway, you can do one ritual per round and you have 10 rounds per minute, 60 minutes per hour. So you can reap a bonus of 600x(1/2 your necrocarnate level) in one go (since the bodies must be fresh to a maximum of one hour old).
#3 adslahnit Mar 02, 2008 2:23:01	Anyway, you can do one ritual per round and you have 10 rounds per minute, 60 minutes per hour. So you can reap a bonus of 600x(1/2 your necrocarnate level) in one go (since the bodies must be fresh to a maximum of one hour old). Actually, you'd only be able to use Soul Harvest as a full-round action once you hit Incarnate 7/Necrocarnate 13. Anything before that and you have to use Soul Harvest as a 1-minute action. Also, the corpse can be dead for as long as 1 hour per necrocarnate level, not just a flat 1 hour.
#4 Nox_Noctis Mar 02, 2008 2:26:59	I was operating under the assumption we had already hit level 13. As for the extended "freshness," that's even better. I had not caught that. That means you can take your time (since you have 13 hours). That should be about 54,600. Of course, that wastes 13 hours of your day...
#5 adslahnit Mar 02, 2008 2:33:43	I was operating under the assumption we had already hit level 13. As for the extended "freshness," that's even better. I had not caught that. That means you can take your time (since you have 13 hours). That should be about 54,600. Of course, that wastes 13 hours of your day... You could theoretically do it for even more than 13 hours assuming you had a nigh-limitless supply of chickens (such as a Chicken-Infested commoner with a bag of rice grains) and someone willing to butcher them for you, but then that just wastes even more of your day, and the essentia lasts for only 24 hours anyway.
#6 Nox_Noctis Mar 02, 2008 2:42:09	Yes, you could. Yes, it would. Heck, even the current 13-hour set-up (where you do all the killing and reaping yourself) is a waste of a day.
#7 CantripN Mar 02, 2008 2:46:34	Spending the 1 hour in the morning when the Wizard/Cleric/Druid get their spells ready will net you more than enough.
#8 Nox_Noctis Mar 02, 2008 2:51:45	Yeah, 4200 essentia should last you the day. Of course, you have to factor in time spent killing your chickens or whatever you choose to kill. EDIT: I just had the image in my head of a factory designed to slaughter chickens (or preferably something with sentience for extra sinister effect) to produce soul energy. That sounds like a (extremely difficult due to the massive hit points associated with the bad guy from all this essentia) campaign idea waiting to happen.
#9 CantripN Mar 02, 2008 2:54:57	Yeah, 4200 essentia should last you the day. Of course, you have to factor in time spent killing your chickens or whatever you choose to kill. I was thinking the 60ish that you can get sooner, but sure. Seriously, 60 is enough to fill any and all melds and other stuff you have. BTW, isn't there a spell that un-invests all Essentia in the target? That would totally screw you over.
#10 jaronk Mar 02, 2008 2:57:45	Okay, I have it, the ultimate team up. Necrocarnate, Dread Necromancer, Commoner with Infested with Chickens. The commoner creates the chickens. The Dread Necromancer Charnel Touches them to death. The Necrocarnate harvests the soul energy for power. Repeat until the Necrocarnate is fully charged. Now the Dread Necromancer uses a Runestaff of the Undying to turn all the dead chickens into an exploding zombie chicken army. And all this while the Wizard is prepping spells for the day! I'm sure we all understand the value of having one exploding zombie chicken army per day *sagely nod* JaronK
#11 Nox_Noctis Mar 02, 2008 3:03:37	I was thinking the 60ish that you can get sooner, but sure. Seriously, 60 is enough to fill any and all melds and other stuff you have. BTW, isn't there a spell that un-invests all Essentia in the target? That would totally screw you over. I was just taking the number you can gain in one hour. I realize it's still massive overkill. And yes, I'm fairly sure there is such a spell (since the book makes many mentions of losing essentia due to spell effects, etc. causing you to lose benefits of soulmelds, etc.).
#12 adslahnit Mar 02, 2008 3:15:13	And yes, I'm fairly sure there is such a spell (since the book makes many mentions of losing essentia due to spell effects, etc. causing you to lose benefits of soulmelds, etc.). There's no such spell that makes you lose all of your essentia, though Divest Essentia, Essentia Lock, Soulbanned Zone, Soulmeld Disjunction, Unbind Chakra, and Unshape Soulmeld are all pretty dangerous for a meldshaper. EDIT: Then again, you can get Spellblade (Soulmeld Disjunction) armor spikes, Spellblade (Unshape Soulmeld) razored armor, a Spellblade (Divest Essentia) horned helm, and a Spellblade (Unbind Chakra) two-handed weapon. That or use a Spellward Shirt to make you immune to those spells, but you'll be vulnerable if a mage casts Soulbanned Zone to nullify your Spellward Shirt and THEN rip apart your essentia and soulmelds.
#13 widow Mar 02, 2008 9:39:08	I think your biggest worry would be an incarnium dragon which I believe can eat your essentia. You would look like a very tasty snack. Too bad the bag of tricks animals dissappear after they are slain. It would be pretty sweet to pay 900gp for a tan bag that gives you 10 dead animals a day.
#14 xaktsaroth Mar 02, 2008 10:08:45	Actually, this is a bit of an old trick, but good job finding it on your own! Big essentia = Anthill + Pot of Boiling Water.
#15 farodin Mar 02, 2008 10:15:48	Too bad the bag of tricks animals dissappear after they are slain. It would be pretty sweet to pay 900gp for a tan bag that gives you 10 dead animals a day a week. Fixed. 10 a week would still be very nice. As long as you're in/near a city you could of course just buy your chickens, but if you're traveling, options are more limited. You could take a few cages with you on a cart, but that's not really that good. Chicken infested commoners will be pretty rare in most campaign worlds I guess.
#16 eldritch_lord Mar 02, 2008 10:58:54	Question: Do those incarnum spells (the ones that let you invest essentia in spells when you prepare them) say they follow the normal limits on essentia invested like soulmelds do? 'Cause investing 4200 essentia in a damaging spell would be...very nice, to say the least. Somehow I doubt they don't specify a limit, but someone should check just in case.
#17 adslahnit Mar 02, 2008 11:34:13	I think your biggest worry would be an incarnium dragon which I believe can eat your essentia. You would look like a very tasty snack. I've taken a look at the Incarnum Dragon, and it has no special attacks or special qualities that would be considerably harmful to a character walking aroud with a crapton of essentia. It's Consume Soulmeld bite is no more harmful to someone with >9000 essentia than to someone with a modest essentia pool. Actually, this is a bit of an old trick, but good job finding it on your own! I could find only one other thread on the board that pointed out the potential abuse of Soul Harvest, and it wasn't even on the CharOp board, so it didn't grow into a big topic. Question: Do those incarnum spells (the ones that let you invest essentia in spells when you prepare them) say they follow the normal limits on essentia invested like soulmelds do? 'Cause investing 4200 essentia in a damaging spell would be...very nice, to say the least. Somehow I doubt they don't specify a limit, but someone should check just in case. A spell with the [incarnum] descriptor that you can invest essentia in counts as an incarnum receptacle, so no dice: Essentia Capacity However large your essentia pool is, you can only invest a certain amount of essentia into any one soulmeld, feat, class feature, magic item, or other incarnum receptacle. Your character level determines this essentia capacity, as shown on the table below. Table 2–1: Essentia Capacity Character Level: Essentia Capacity 1st–5th: 1 6th–11th: 2 12th–17th: 3 18th–20th: 4 Incarnates and totemists both have class features that expand this capacity for all or certain soulmelds. See the class descriptions later in this chapter. Certain feats, prestige classes, and magic items can increase a meldshaper’s capacity as well.
#18 archerpwr Mar 02, 2008 12:21:20	I could find only one other thread on the board that pointed out the potential abuse of Soul Harvest, and it wasn't even on the CharOp board, so it didn't grow into a big topic. I remember seeing this before as well. Maybe the thread got archived or something. *shrug*
#19 eldritch_lord Mar 02, 2008 12:22:37	A spell with the [incarnum] descriptor that you can invest essentia in counts as an incarnum receptacle, so no dice: Ah well, I forgot there was an [Incarnum] subtype. It was worth a shot.
#20 CantripN Mar 02, 2008 12:48:14	Midnight Metamagic would be cool with this... Put free metamagic on all your spells. Of course, that would require you to have spells. Might be interesting in Gestalt.
#21 amadithegreat Mar 02, 2008 12:53:13	Infact, this is the only way to mane Necrocarnate playable, without this it outright sucks. With this, it's good. Funny though, and well.. It's not like finding insects shouldn't be that hard - Warlock that uses summon swarm invocation for you does the trick.
#22 adslahnit Mar 02, 2008 13:51:54	Midnight Metamagic would be cool with this... Put free metamagic on all your spells. Of course, that would require you to have spells. Might be interesting in Gestalt. Even at 20th-level, you'd only be able to invest up to 4 essentia in Midnight Metamagic once per day (5 essentia with Improved Essentia Capacity). So at most you're just coaxing out 4 or 5 free levels of metamagic spell level adjustments from Midnight Metamagic.
#23 farodin Mar 02, 2008 13:53:50	Midnight Metamagic would be cool with this... Put free metamagic on all your spells. Of course, that would require you to have spells. Might be interesting in Gestalt. I'm pretty sure that feat also has the normal essentia cap, like everything else. Five or so free metamagic levels certainly isn't bad, but it doesn't really stand out from the rest in my opinion. Edit: Ninja'd.
#24 CantripN Mar 02, 2008 13:55:47	I'm pretty sure that feat also has the normal essentia cap, like everything else. Five or so free metamagic levels certainly isn't bad, but it doesn't really stand out from the rest in my opinion. I thought the cap was per spell...
#25 farodin Mar 02, 2008 14:02:16	I thought the cap was per spell... According to the example given in the feat, you need a maximum essentia capacity of 3 to enlarge (+1) one spell, and empower (+2) another.
#26 awaken_D_M_golem Mar 02, 2008 14:03:45	Congrats on a re-find. Everything essential is capped at 4 (or 5, 6, 7, 8, or even 9 if you're really tricky). The exceptions are Heart of Incarnum feat, and the Incandescent Champion PrC- which is opposed alignment. Midnight Metamagic + Psycarnum Infusion = DH_'s Psycarnum Metamagic thingy. Very Good and TO-ey. HoI feat only requires being able to bind to Heart chakra. This is do-able at 9th level by the PrC just after InChamp. Then add in Necrocarnate, for +9 BAB at 10th level, and 60*15(-ish) hitpoints everyday. Boil teh Ants - beavis. Necrocarnate itself has to wait 'til 18th level to do this. And upgrade at level 20. Don't get me wrong, having all that essential is great, you just have to find as many essential "ports" to put it all in. Spam Midnight Constructs might work. The build I like for this is Gestalt: Flesh Golem 9, X 1 one side // other side ... ... Some +1 BAB balancing the flesh golem / 2 free levels prolly Incarnum / PrC after InChamp 4 / Necrocarnate 1 lots of room 10th level immune to most everything, and 900+ hitpoints, regenerates self via a soulmeld, and never slowed.
#27 jameswilliamogle Mar 24, 2008 15:04:05	...And take leadership for a chicken-infested commoner...
#28 ninja1 Mar 24, 2008 15:20:30	- Warlock that uses summon swarm invocation for you does the trick. Summoning doesn't do it for you as summoned critters don't leave a corpse... ...now a vampire's Children of the Night (Su) ability to "call forth" 1d6+1 rat swarms (among other things) is a different story. Ah, the persistant Greater Consumptive Field days... :D