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Necromantic Warmage?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
darthwyyrlok
Apr 12, 2008 1:53:56 One of my players has a warmage and really wants some basic necro abilities. I'm letting the party rebuild their characters a little, and I'm thinking about letting him swap out any spells he doesnt want for some basic arcane necro spells of the same level. Does this sound unbalanced? I figure he will lose some ability to throw damage around and necro spells aren't exactly super useful in day to day operations.

Any Thoughts?
#2
BadCatMan
Apr 12, 2008 2:16:23 See if he'll try the Dread Necromancer from Heroes Of Horror instead. It operates a lot like the Warmage, with same casting mechanic, but gains a lot more in abilities: lich transformation, necromantic spells, undead armies, as well as plain negative energy blasting.
#3
x-codes
Apr 12, 2008 3:47:44 Don't bother. If he wants to be necroish then have him take the Fell Animate and/or Fell Drain metamagic feats and get Command Undead via Ecclectic Learning in the PHB II at level 6. After that, go into your favorite metamagic-enhancing PrC's (Incantatrix is cheesy, but works).
#4
darthwyyrlok
Apr 12, 2008 12:20:18 Good ideas. He's looking at Dread Necro, but he really likes having fireballs and orbs of whatever. I might see if he wants to multiclass. Those feats would be good too.

Thanks!
#5
the_shaman
Apr 12, 2008 12:59:31 Can't he just be a sorcerer with one of the Dragon magazine bloodlines for extra spells, and choose PrCs/spells that put him in the necromantic role? The bloodlines should be available in the Crystalkeep indeces. He won't have quite the depth of knowledge of the dread necro, but be a lot more versatile.
#6
ninjarabbit
Apr 12, 2008 13:19:02 Arcane Disciple: Death or Undeath domains would work too assuming he has a decent wis score and access to wis-boosting items.

The PHB II variant of the warmage allows you to trade advanced learning for elceltric learning, which lets you pick lower level spells from other schools of magic besides evocation.
#7
bergtann
Apr 12, 2008 13:33:29
One of my players has a warmage and really wants some basic necro abilities. I'm letting the party rebuild their characters a little, and I'm thinking about letting him swap out any spells he doesnt want for some basic arcane necro spells of the same level. Does this sound unbalanced? I figure he will lose some ability to throw damage around and necro spells aren't exactly super useful in day to day operations.

Any Thoughts?

Thoughts are, he is not losing much. The Warmage has so many different spells that do the same thing, blast. Trading out some will not significantly affect his damage output, while gaining other abilities may matter a lot.

The Necromantic bloodline feat and Arcane Disciple, as has been mentioned, should give him a bit of necromancy, really.
#8
the_shaman
Apr 12, 2008 13:46:56
Arcane Disciple: Death or Undeath domains would work too assuming he has a decent wis score and access to wis-boosting items.

Possible, but very stat-intensive. This is why I prefer the Dragon bloodlines or the knowstones from Dragon 333, or the feature from CChampion which also gives you domain spellcasting - I'm forgetting the name right now. I suppose you could get all of them, of course.

That, or checking with the DM if a sorc can get more spells by research, the same way as a wizo could invent new spells. As one of my PCs would love to say, you can't call yourself a mage until apprentices learn spells with your name on them.
#9
Skrimshaw
Apr 12, 2008 17:03:58 I like the Mother Cyst Feat (LM) for all the neat Necrotic spells.

That and Fell Animate ( as mentioned above) should suit him nicely.
#10
x-codes
Apr 12, 2008 17:22:06 One way or another go Warmage 6 and take Command Undead with ecclectic learning. That spell is still awesome as a 3rd-level spell.
#11
bensan
Apr 12, 2008 18:13:38 You only need 13 Wis to get Animate Dead and Desecrate out of Arcane Disciple: Undeath, and that's all you need for building an army of the dead. Yes, it's more Wis than a warmage would otherwise need, but you're essentially getting a whole new set of features with it. If you want to make bone or corpse creatures, get someone to cast Owl's Wisdom on you and control them via Command Undead from Eclectic Learning.

Fell Animate is indeed always fun, and if you're building for metamagic you might want to look into Lord Of The Uttercold and possibly Energy Substitution.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 darthwyyrlok Apr 12, 2008 1:53:56	One of my players has a warmage and really wants some basic necro abilities. I'm letting the party rebuild their characters a little, and I'm thinking about letting him swap out any spells he doesnt want for some basic arcane necro spells of the same level. Does this sound unbalanced? I figure he will lose some ability to throw damage around and necro spells aren't exactly super useful in day to day operations. Any Thoughts?
#2 BadCatMan Apr 12, 2008 2:16:23	See if he'll try the Dread Necromancer from Heroes Of Horror instead. It operates a lot like the Warmage, with same casting mechanic, but gains a lot more in abilities: lich transformation, necromantic spells, undead armies, as well as plain negative energy blasting.
#3 x-codes Apr 12, 2008 3:47:44	Don't bother. If he wants to be necroish then have him take the Fell Animate and/or Fell Drain metamagic feats and get Command Undead via Ecclectic Learning in the PHB II at level 6. After that, go into your favorite metamagic-enhancing PrC's (Incantatrix is cheesy, but works).
#4 darthwyyrlok Apr 12, 2008 12:20:18	Good ideas. He's looking at Dread Necro, but he really likes having fireballs and orbs of whatever. I might see if he wants to multiclass. Those feats would be good too. Thanks!
#5 the_shaman Apr 12, 2008 12:59:31	Can't he just be a sorcerer with one of the Dragon magazine bloodlines for extra spells, and choose PrCs/spells that put him in the necromantic role? The bloodlines should be available in the Crystalkeep indeces. He won't have quite the depth of knowledge of the dread necro, but be a lot more versatile.
#6 ninjarabbit Apr 12, 2008 13:19:02	Arcane Disciple: Death or Undeath domains would work too assuming he has a decent wis score and access to wis-boosting items. The PHB II variant of the warmage allows you to trade advanced learning for elceltric learning, which lets you pick lower level spells from other schools of magic besides evocation.
#7 bergtann Apr 12, 2008 13:33:29	One of my players has a warmage and really wants some basic necro abilities. I'm letting the party rebuild their characters a little, and I'm thinking about letting him swap out any spells he doesnt want for some basic arcane necro spells of the same level. Does this sound unbalanced? I figure he will lose some ability to throw damage around and necro spells aren't exactly super useful in day to day operations. Any Thoughts? Thoughts are, he is not losing much. The Warmage has so many different spells that do the same thing, blast. Trading out some will not significantly affect his damage output, while gaining other abilities may matter a lot. The Necromantic bloodline feat and Arcane Disciple, as has been mentioned, should give him a bit of necromancy, really.
#8 the_shaman Apr 12, 2008 13:46:56	Arcane Disciple: Death or Undeath domains would work too assuming he has a decent wis score and access to wis-boosting items. Possible, but very stat-intensive. This is why I prefer the Dragon bloodlines or the knowstones from Dragon 333, or the feature from CChampion which also gives you domain spellcasting - I'm forgetting the name right now. I suppose you could get all of them, of course. That, or checking with the DM if a sorc can get more spells by research, the same way as a wizo could invent new spells. As one of my PCs would love to say, you can't call yourself a mage until apprentices learn spells with your name on them.
#9 Skrimshaw Apr 12, 2008 17:03:58	I like the Mother Cyst Feat (LM) for all the neat Necrotic spells. That and Fell Animate ( as mentioned above) should suit him nicely.
#10 x-codes Apr 12, 2008 17:22:06	One way or another go Warmage 6 and take Command Undead with ecclectic learning. That spell is still awesome as a 3rd-level spell.
#11 bensan Apr 12, 2008 18:13:38	You only need 13 Wis to get Animate Dead and Desecrate out of Arcane Disciple: Undeath, and that's all you need for building an army of the dead. Yes, it's more Wis than a warmage would otherwise need, but you're essentially getting a whole new set of features with it. If you want to make bone or corpse creatures, get someone to cast Owl's Wisdom on you and control them via Command Undead from Eclectic Learning. Fell Animate is indeed always fun, and if you're building for metamagic you might want to look into Lord Of The Uttercold and possibly Energy Substitution.