Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 mystweaver Mar 19, 2008 8:28:34	Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum but not so new to D&D. (12 yrs rpging various systems) Usually, I play pretty basic characters and focus on roleplaying rather than hack and slash. However, over the easter holiday, I am going to be playing in a gestalt campaign with a very small group. There is only going to be three of us (one DM & 2 players). I want to play a cleric/fighter sort of character. We have been given NO restrictions whatsoever but I plan to go Human with either CN, N or LN alignment. I am thinking of Longsword and shield with some fullplate. Aside from that, I am at a loss as to what to do. If you can think up of a great build that can fight and heal, then thats all I am asking. Between the two of us, we will need the healing. The otherguy knows how to build a gestalt character and is taking some rogue and probably wiz or sorc but thats not of any concern. I have only really read core but for this, I am going to need a seriously powerful build that is good at all levels. We are given a 32 point build system to play with. So, please please please, can someone come up with a decent build (or at least somewhere to start)? Throw in some prestigue classes or whatever. Above I say fighter, but thats only for the first thought of having a fast BAB progression with feats. This really is an open book request. The winner will get a smiley face and a great big thanks from me considering that right now, I really don't have the time to read through every book (or PDF) that I can lay my hands on to create an uber optimized character. Thanks already in advance for any ideas you can put forward. (edit) Oh and starting at lvl 1, just incase that isnt too obvious :-)
#2 tshern Mar 19, 2008 8:39:10	Pure Cleric on one side is good and if you want to go melee, just use Psychic Warrior on the other side. It gives you feats and some decent powers, like Mindblank that Clerics don't otherwise get. Pick up a lot of combat feats with Psychic Warrior and use some of their buffs, but take Divine metamagic (persistent) fuel your Cleric side of the build. Something as simple as Cloistered Cleric 15/Ordained Champion 5//Psychic Warrior 20 could do it just fine, but feel free to use Slayer in conjunction with PsiWar. Divine power will reset your BAB anyway, so there is no need for that though. You'll have decent skills too because Cloistered Cleric yields 6 skill points a level. Buy a lot of nightsticks (Libris Mortis), use Extend spell/Persistent spell/Divine metamagic (persistent) chain, cast Divine power, Righteous Wrath of the Faithful, Righteous Might, Greater Magic Weapon, Magic Vestment, Divine Favor and the like and beat the snot out of anything on your way out. Remember to use animated shield, so you can use two-handed weapons for huge power attack damage. Sample build: Cloistered Cleric 15/Ordained Champion 5//Psychic Warrior 20 Str:14 Dex:10 Con:14 Int:10 Wis:16 Cha:14 Feats: Able learner (assuming you are human), Knowledge devotion (change Knowledge domains power for this), Power attack, Weapon focus (War domain), Improved bullrush, Shocktrooper, Extend spell, Persistent spell, Divine metamagic (persistent) and whatever you want
#3 mystweaver Mar 19, 2008 8:57:44	Awesome thanks for the very swift reply. Could you guide me as to where I might be able to find those classes and the various feats (I don't recognise any of them :-) Sounds really cool though!
#4 tshern Mar 19, 2008 9:09:09	-Cloistered Cleric, also in Unearthed Arcana. -Psychic Warrior, also in Expanded Psionics Handbook. -Ordained Champion is from Complete Champion. -Power attack is from Player's Handbook as is Extend spell and Improved bullrush. -Able learner=Races of Destiny -Knowledge devotion=Complete Champion -Shocktrooper tactical feat=Complete Warrior -Persistent spell=Complete Arcane. -Divine metamagic=Complete Divine From the spells I mentioned only Righteous Wrath of the Faithful is from Spell Compendium, all the others are from Player's Handbook.
#5 mystweaver Mar 19, 2008 10:25:48	Marvelous, thank you ever so much for your input. I will be running with this build. Ill post as to how it goes. I expect we will get about 30-40 hours play in over the weekend, and through published adventures, that should mean quite a few levels between just two characters (if we don't both get annihilated early on).
#6 amadithegreat Mar 19, 2008 15:53:48	Allright, let's be honest here, shall we. Archivist > Cleric in gestalt. You have a LOT more versatile spellcasting, the BaB is not worth noting because you can parse it with the other side, and only bad save is reflex. Therefore: Side 1: Archivist 7 / Sacred Exorcist 1/Radiant Servant of Pelor 2/Contemplative 3/Divine Oracle 2/Archivist 3/Church Inquisitor 2 Side 2: Paladin 1/Human Paragon 3/Paladin 1/Pious Templar 1/Fighter 2/Ranger 1/Feat Rogue 4/Barbarian 2/Factotum 1/Psychic Warrior 2/Monk 1/Factotum 2 That's a crapton of classes.
#7 davethemagicweasel Mar 19, 2008 16:09:03	May as well swap 10 of those Cleric levels for something with class abilities - Contemplative (CDiv), Church Inquisitor (CDiv), Radiant Servant (CDiv), Morninglord of Lathander (some FR book), Fist of Raziel (BoED), Prestige Paladin (possibly with Serenity feat from Dragon Compendium), etc
#8 operation_shoestring Mar 19, 2008 18:04:06	Allright, let's be honest here, shall we. Archivist > Cleric in gestalt. You have a LOT more versatile spellcasting, the BaB is not worth noting because you can parse it with the other side, and only bad save is reflex. Therefore: Side 1: Archivist 7 / Sacred Exorcist 1/Radiant Servant of Pelor 2/Contemplative 3/Divine Oracle 2/Archivist 3/Church Inquisitor 2 Side 2: Paladin 1/Human Paragon 3/Paladin 1/Pious Templar 1/Fighter 2/Ranger 1/Feat Rogue 4/Barbarian 2/Factotum 1/Psychic Warrior 2/Monk 1/Factotum 2 That's a crapton of classes. Last I heard, you were not allowed to have PrC's on both sides of a gestalt build. I'd agree with the Cloistered Cleric//Psychic Warrior suggestion
#9 ChristopherGroves Mar 19, 2008 18:50:16	There's only one PrC on the other side (Pious Templar 1) ... the rest are base classes.
#10 andyjames Mar 19, 2008 19:21:07	Radiant Servant and Church Inquisitor has alignment problems. ----------------------------------------------- My pick for a Basher/Healer is: Side 1: Cloistered Cleric 3/Church Inquisitor 10/some other fullcasting cleric PrC that don't require feats as a pre-requisite other than metamagic feats Side 2: Dread Necromancer all the way LN Human (with Draconic template) Str 12 (+2 race) 14 Dex 10 Con 14 (+2 race) 16 Int 10 Wis 16 Cha 15 (+2 race) 17 Domains: Undeath, Planning Feats: Extend Spell (b), Extra Turning (b), Persistent Spells (b), Tomb Tainted Soul (1), DMM: Persist (3), Practical Metamagic (6), Extra Spell: Greater Mighty Wallop (9), Power Attack (12), Extra Spell: Bite of the Werebear (15), Extra Turning (18) 3 'tricks' to this build: 1) 2x Turn attempts for your DMM: Persist trick. That means, right from the get go, you can Persist 2 spells at the same time. That's right. Rebuke Undead from the Dread Necro can be used to fuel DMM, and it is a separate pool from the Turn Undead from the Cloistered Cleric. Also, Extra Turning gives you +4 attempts to BOTH pools simultaneously. Read the wording of it carefully. 2) Dread Necro gets an at will negative energy attack that deals 1d8 + (1/4 DN levels). This is a normal attack that can be used once a round. It is NOT a standard action to invoke. That means, amongst other things, you can use it as part of a full attack. Tomb Tainted Soul makes you heal on negative energy instead of positive. So, what you do is hit the enemy multiple times in a full attack, and on your last attack, you touch yourself to heal up 1d8+x. Almost as good as fast healing. 3) You choose Greatclub as your martial weapon of choice. You cast Spikes on it for +2 to-hit and +caster level in damage, both enhancement damage. You then cast Greater Mighty Wallop to on it, which increases its effective size by 1/4 caster levels. When you first start casting GMWallop (level 9), you'd get +2 size increase, which means 3d8 per strike base. By the time you hit level 20, it is 6d8 base per bash. Coupled with Righteous Might, Bite of the Werebear, Divine Power, Power Attack (with a 2-handed weapon), etc., your damage would be obscene, to say the least. I would recommend getting a +1 Spellstoring Greatclub and put Vampiric Touch into it. I would also recommend having False Life on as much as possible. The standard gish tricks. Have fun. Oh, and put all your level stat increases into Cha.
#11 tshern Mar 19, 2008 19:27:23	May as well swap 10 of those Cleric levels for something with class abilities - Contemplative (CDiv), Church Inquisitor (CDiv), Radiant Servant (CDiv), Morninglord of Lathander (some FR book), Fist of Raziel (BoED), Prestige Paladin (possibly with Serenity feat from Dragon Compendium), etc Remember, less turning levels takes away smiting damage.
#12 mystweaver Mar 20, 2008 5:43:27	Dread Necro is interesting however, I am really liking the idea of a psychic warrior. It is however something I will consider should my character die early on.
#13 echilda Mar 20, 2008 6:28:24	As the DM here Im going to mention that we are playing Age of Worms and Im sure that people understand what that will mean for the players. I personally like the Archivist and Factorum for gestalt builds, but Cleric is always a powerhouse and PsyWar is a good balanced class with excellent utility. Remember you need to pick your domains as well. Travel is always a good choice. Planning and meditation are also nice. Fate gives you uncanny dodge, which I know you like.
#14 tshern Mar 20, 2008 6:56:32	Where is Meditation domain from? Remember that if you plan on using Ordained Champion's sweet smiting ability, you need War domain. Knowledge is a nice bonus from Cloistered Cleric and on top of that, Time domain is lovely. Echilda: Are you all against using a variation of the Ordained Champion suitable for an ideology or another god than Hextor/Heironeus?
#15 echilda Mar 20, 2008 7:17:51	Where is Meditation domain from? Mis-spell. Meant Mediation. Which is from Eberron. Echilda: Are you all against using a variation of the Ordained Champion suitable for an ideology or another god than Hextor/Heironeus? Not at all. Ill judge it on an adhoc basis depending on how it fits with alignment/campaign.
#16 echilda Mar 20, 2008 7:18:52	Dragon and Dungeon are in too, which wasnt originally posted. As long as I can find it in Crystal Keep or a (WOTC) book Im good.
#17 tshern Mar 20, 2008 7:22:34	Then reworking the Ordained Champion might be called for to give some less icky domains and make it suitable for whatever the alignment Mystweaver winds up picking.
#18 mystweaver Mar 20, 2008 11:06:15	Still havent looked at ordained champion to figure out what I need. Why go with mediation? what does it do? I was just thinking, war & healing tbh, but considering I will be something neutral I can burn spells for healing anyway.