Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 ninto Nov 23, 2008 16:20:46	So I have a level four rogue(3.5). I was supposed to go to the first night of the new game last week but i missed out because of family health prob. I call my DM and asked what i missed and he said that they leveled up. I asked if i should level up and he said no because i wasn't there... ok fine with me i suppose, sucks i couldn't play cuz my mom was sick, whatever. So then he tells me that I get to start with 3lvl gp instead of 4th.. not really clear on the reasoning there but i dont get the gold i was supposed to have. So i cant have the fun toys I had. Now this is also the DM that i had a big falling out with and this is his first time DMing since ive been back to the group. I have been playing again for a few months. I dont wanna jump off the bat and say he is taking out past problems in game but whatever. I guess my question is what would be the best build/equip to go about this. They are all 5th lvl ill be 4th. and ill have 3k gold. And they started with 6k for gear and im sure they got some bank from the last game.... I was going to go as a rogue, not a fan of dipping but i wouldn't mind going with a PrC. I was going to play the skill monkey rogue, but now i dont get as much fun gear to start with. Im not looking to make a uber guy who could hurt his game, i just want a strong enough guy to keep up. And i could also just be over thinking everything and my guy could work out just fine, but im not sure, ive never had to start behind the rest of the party... matter of fact no one else has in the group, even if they came in a few sessions later. This is taking place in Ebberon. the other classes are druid, barb, psion, artificer. Any ideas on what to do would be welcomed. thanks for the help.
#2 feloniousela Nov 23, 2008 21:30:39	I would say you should really think about getting some spellcasting. Later on the rest of that group will WAY overshadow you if you don't get some magical help going on. Some type of Unseen Seer style build is awesomely capable of being the skill monkey as well as being an offensive force. Spellthief 1/Wizard 2/Human Paragon 3/Unseen Seer..... three or four levels of Spellwarp Sniper later on could be cool (just use Frost Breath to be a very effective pain in the butt in combat) The mid levels on builds like these can be painful....but I would focus more on ray spells and stay outta combat.
#3 ninto Nov 24, 2008 0:13:44	I would say you should really think about getting some spellcasting. Later on the rest of that group will WAY overshadow you if you don't get some magical help going on. Some type of Unseen Seer style build is awesomely capable of being the skill monkey as well as being an offensive force. Spellthief 1/Wizard 2/Human Paragon 3/Unseen Seer..... three or four levels of Spellwarp Sniper later on could be cool (just use Frost Breath to be a very effective pain in the butt in combat) The mid levels on builds like these can be painful....but I would focus more on ray spells and stay outta combat. Well i was hopping to kinda stay near my original idea of the rogue because if he sees me dipping all over the place he will def think im just playing something to screw with him. Im not trying to take the low road. Just something near my original build that will be able to keep up. and i know the druid will own us all in the long run but yeah... But thank you for the idea.
#4 feloniousela Nov 24, 2008 13:56:53	Well, you could go some kind of twf rogue....but seriously, any non caster (including your barb friend) is going to get blown away by those three caster classes. Psions get unreal. We all know Druids rule. And artificers are just unfair. It's too bad that simply wanting to play a rogue caster will make your life miserable....none of the builds I suggested are even THAT good. They are just good at being....good. :P You could always just do a Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 17 with Daring Outlaw and Able Learner. Skill monkey stuff and decent combatant will be taken care of, and it's certainly not broken by any means, and not complicated either. Plus you get to RP a swashbuckler....and that's always fun.
#5 Wyvernhand Nov 24, 2008 14:50:56	Since you already have rogue4 just consider taking all following levels in Swashbuckler like FE's build, except you'll be Rogue4/Swash16. Nearly similar build, but slightly different. Nab Daring Outlaw at 6 and you'll only miss that one die of sneak attack for 1 level. From there, go into the TWF tree as mentioned. Make sure you keep UMD maxed out, even if it costs you extra ranks (assuming you didn't take Able Learner at level 1). Take Craven (Champions of Ruin) at some point, give you +1 dmg/hd when you SA. Thats bonus damage PER HIT. Its juicy!
#6 phaedrusxy Nov 24, 2008 16:21:59	Since you already have rogue4 just consider taking all following levels in Swashbuckler like FE's build, except you'll be Rogue4/Swash16. Nearly similar build, but slightly different. Nab Daring Outlaw at 6 and you'll only miss that one die of sneak attack for 1 level. From there, go into the TWF tree as mentioned. Make sure you keep UMD maxed out, even if it costs you extra ranks (assuming you didn't take Able Learner at level 1). Take Craven (Champions of Ruin) at some point, give you +1 dmg/hd when you SA. Thats bonus damage PER HIT. Its juicy! I get the idea that he hasn't actually played yet. So presumably he could change things around. Your suggestions are good, though, for what he seems to want.
#7 rasmus_wagner Nov 24, 2008 16:34:54	Beguiler (from PHBII) does everything a rogue does, except it replaces sneak attack with full arcane casting from a limited list.
#8 ninto Nov 25, 2008 22:56:10	Yeah we havn't started it yet. We will next week. And i may check out the rogue/swash build. i can take 3/17 if i want since we haven't started really. and tips to the swash? ive never played one, and actually no one in our group has either.
#9 Wyvernhand Nov 26, 2008 3:17:15	Swash/Rogue is gonna play pretty much the same as a full rogue, except you'll have more hp and better attack bonus. You are gonna want to flank in full attack position as much as possible. Utilize lots of 5' steps if you can to make sure you stay as close to full attack position as you can. You'll probably want to take the Two Weapon Fighting feats to get more attacks per round, which translates to more sneak attack damage. If you are human, take Able Learner at 1st level, since this allows you to buy ranks in skills during your Swashbuckler levels that aren't normally Swashbuckler skills at a 1 to 1 rate. Keep up Use Magic Device as much as possible. Its infinitely useful, especially if you can get your hands on a couple of wands like orbs or Whirling Blade or similar if you find them. Other than that, spend your skills as you choose, between hide/move silent if you want to go that route, or search/disable or diplomacy, or whatever. Best of luck!
#10 ninto Nov 26, 2008 10:26:45	Keep up Use Magic Device as much as possible. Its infinitely useful, especially if you can get your hands on a couple of wands like orbs or Whirling Blade or similar if you find them. Other than that, spend your skills as you choose, between hide/move silent if you want to go that route, or search/disable or diplomacy, or whatever. Best of luck! The rules we play by now are the pathfinder rules so skills are easy to use, it only cost 1 skill point even if its not in class, you just dont get in class skill bonus. Also in pathfinder hide/move silent are under stealth skill, and other useful ones are combined. so it makes it easy to hone in on your skills. Thing i see about swash is that it goes only 4+int mod for skills and that kinda sucks coming from the 8+int mod of the rogue.
#11 feloniousela Nov 26, 2008 11:05:22	True, but swashbuckler actually lets you be productive in combat without severely being at risk of being one shotted every combat. Also, if all of those skills are combined, it makes it even easier to go Swashbuckler since you have to spend fewer skill points to get the skills you want. It's a decent build if you're looking to be a skillmonkey useful in combat without being a spellcaster (since your DM apparently frowns on optimization : )
#12 ninto Nov 26, 2008 13:44:02	It's a decent build if you're looking to be a skillmonkey useful in combat without being a spellcaster (since your DM apparently frowns on optimization : ) Yeah they hate how i make my char from mechanics before background. But thats what i love about the game, so many choices no reason to ever play the same two char.
#13 snex Nov 26, 2008 14:40:46	decline his offer of 3000 gp and be a vow of poverty druid.
#14 ninto Nov 26, 2008 23:24:36	decline his offer of 3000 gp and be a vow of poverty druid. Yeah i already would had chose to play the druid char except there already is one in the group...
#15 ninto Nov 30, 2008 10:17:22	decline his offer of 3000 gp and be a vow of poverty druid. We play three games at a time, right now i have a Pala, rogue, and for another new one im going to try this vow of poverty druid. It looks really cool but i have a few questions. It says you get bonus exalted feats, do you still get your druid feats when you level up? also I have been looking through them and the ones that seem to be the best, unless im missing concepts would be: Touch of golden ice, sanctify natural attacks, and spell focus(good) what im wanting to do with this guy is be strong during wild shape and have the spells as backup damage when i run out of my perday, but im also taking natural spells for when i want to blast them in combat. now for the only having simple items, it says i can have a quarterstaff, or a club. but does that mean i cannot have a mouth weapon for when i wild shape? we are able to take +10, with two odds, I know im going to go +4 in wisdom, +2 con, int and cha. I was going to leave str and dex 10 cuz it changes with wild shape. is that a bad idea because i only get 2/day right now? any help will be welcomed.
#16 phaedrusxy Dec 03, 2008 14:11:34	It says you get bonus exalted feats, do you still get your druid feats when you level up? also I have been looking through them and the ones that seem to be the best, unless im missing concepts would be: Touch of golden ice, sanctify natural attacks, and spell focus(good) Druid feats? You get the normal feats from going up in levels. what im wanting to do with this guy is be strong during wild shape and have the spells as backup damage when i run out of my perday, but im also taking natural spells for when i want to blast them in combat. Entangle is one of the best spells in the game for its level. Use it, and things like it. In general you're better off avoiding "blasting" if at all possible, as it just wastes your spells to do something you can do without spells (damage). now for the only having simple items, it says i can have a quarterstaff, or a club. but does that mean i cannot have a mouth weapon for when i wild shape? What is a mouth weapon? A bite? You still get to bite and claw... If you mean a Mouthpick weapon (which I doubt), then no, you probably can't use those. we are able to take +10, with two odds, I know im going to go +4 in wisdom, +2 con, int and cha. I was going to leave str and dex 10 cuz it changes with wild shape. is that a bad idea because i only get 2/day right now? No, it's not a bad idea. Let your animal companion tank when you can't, and just back it up.