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Need a Powerful Melee Build

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
thegrumbliestpuppy
Dec 30, 2008 6:56:11 Hey, I need help making a melee build that's powerful enough to keep being useful in my campaign. (Is it even possible to be an all melee class that can be on par with a cleric or druid?) The only rule is, no magic (unless it makes sense)!
My dwarf hates magic and elves, so, mixing in cleric, or whatever, doesn't work.

I was planning on going Weapons Master until I figured out it doesn't exist in 3.5

Right now I'm a level 2 fighter, level 2 barbarian. (oh and he uses throwing weapons sometimes, the dm allowed for my throwing axes to be str based, not dex)

Thanks!
#2
pithica
Dec 30, 2008 7:33:28 The only 'non-magical' classes/builds that really even come close to casters are the one's in Book of Nine Swords. And even then, if your DM doesn't squash the really broken caster crap (Timestop, Gate, Shapechange, etc ad nauseum), it's not very close.

That said, I can think of a few builds that will make you at least 'feel' useful as the BSF...

Compilation of Low Level Builds
Optimal Builds for Each Level
Warrior Build Thread
Gattlin Chain Gun Tripper
Jack B Quick Fighter
Machine Gun Rogue
Halfling Thrower
The Reason Gnome's aren't in 4th Ed
Lester the Molester

Obviously, not all of them will work, but they may give you an idea of the kinds of things your interested in, and can ask a more specific question. You may want to include what books you are allowed to pull from when you do, as that's the only way you'll get 'custom' help around here.
#3
immolate
Dec 30, 2008 7:35:25
Hey, I need help making a melee build that's powerful enough to keep being useful in my campaign. (Is it even possible to be an all melee class that can be on par with a cleric or druid?) The only rule is, no magic (unless it makes sense)!
My dwarf hates magic and elves, so, mixing in cleric, or whatever, doesn't work.

I was planning on going Weapons Master until I figured out it doesn't exist in 3.5

Right now I'm a level 2 fighter, level 2 barbarian. (oh and he uses throwing weapons sometimes, the dm allowed for my throwing axes to be str based, not dex)

Thanks!

By himself, that is without buffs from someone else, it isn't really possible for a straight melee to equal an optimized druid or cleric, but don't let that stop you from having fun.

Exotic Weapons Master is in 3.5, Complete Warrior page 30. Not the same thing: this one's a PRC, but some flavor in common.

My suggestion would have been to be a dungeon crasher, but you've already taken fighter 2 so that's out. The progression for that build is F1 (Power Attack, Improved Bullrush), F2 (Dungeon Crasher), F3 (Knockback), F6 (Dungeon Crasher, Shock Trooper). The lvl 4 feat could be used for Exotic Weapons Proficiency if going the controller route or something else that synergizes with dungeon crasher.

I'm not well-versed in the charger/pouncer builds, which is another oft-used strategy on these boards, but I assume that doing that as a dwarf is decidedly sub-optimal because of the reduced base move.

Depending on the flavor you're looking for in your dwarf, you might want to read and familiarize yourself with Tome of Battle. Both Crusader and Warblade can offer some really interesting choices with a pure-martial character. They have many 4E-style abilities in the form of martial maneuvers and stances without using magic. Very much a martial devotee approach, if you see your dwarf as a practitioner of the "art" of war.
#4
thegrumbliestpuppy
Dec 30, 2008 7:57:51 Haha, I suppose I should give some backstory.

My DM is a very fair DM, and we are not a generally crazy Munchkin group.
The druid is brand-new and god-awful (doesn't show up half the time, and we've almost killed him off 3 times by now. He's a good role-player though)
The cleric is a good optimizer. He plays more as support though since he's the co-dm and is technically an npc (though he plays as a pc sorta).
The Sorcerer is going Pale-Master just for the role-playing of the character.
The swash-buckler is meh, and the ranger is pretty decent (she's an elf, so her character and mine fight often).

My character is basically a Slayer from the Warhammer universe http://www.tentonhammer.com/system/files/images/NPC_Gotrek.preview.jpg.
Yes, my goal is to get the group killed occasionally, seeing as my characters goal is to have a glorious death :D.

All books are allowed. Some cheese is ok since melee classes generally need it to stack up later in the game. Just nothing crazy like the Omnicifier. I wear mithril armor so that I can get my dexterity armor-bonus and so that I keep my movement speed +10 bonus from being a barbarian.

I want a character that exceeds in killing things, but more-so can stand up to and take out magicians (or at least not be made useless by them from a simple "hold" spell).

Is dipping in occult slayer any good? Any ideas are welcome.
#5
pithica
Dec 30, 2008 8:14:10 If all books are allowed, open your Tome of Battle to page 20 and read the Warblade class. It's exactly what you're looking for.
#6
Wyvernhand
Dec 30, 2008 11:09:29 My Dwarven Urgrosh build. You have to be a dwarf though. Its good. Very beefy, very dwarfy. Devout, sketchy about magic, and good at hitting things REALLY hard.
#7
pithica
Dec 30, 2008 12:44:42 Nice build...other than the fact that the OP took the Barbie and Meatsack levels first (and not ranger), he can otherwise completely do your build.
#8
thegrumbliestpuppy
Dec 30, 2008 20:06:46 My dm is pretty much fine with me redoing my levels at this point, since I had told him at the beginning of the campaign that I was planning on going weapon master, and then suddenly we both found out it doesn't exist in 3.5 :P

I like the Warblade build, it basically seems like what the fighter class should be (not useless).

Is the frenzied barbarian any good?

I guess this was a 2-part question: Do you have any advice for me, and which melee classes are better than others (for instance, I've heard monks suck, fighters mostly suck, and not much about most else).

Thanks for the advice so far :D
#9
Wyvernhand
Dec 30, 2008 22:06:43
My dm is pretty much fine with me redoing my levels at this point, since I had told him at the beginning of the campaign that I was planning on going weapon master, and then suddenly we both found out it doesn't exist in 3.5 :P

I like the Warblade build, it basically seems like what the fighter class should be (not useless).

Is the frenzied barbarian any good?

I guess this was a 2-part question: Do you have any advice for me, and which melee classes are better than others (for instance, I've heard monks suck, fighters mostly suck, and not much about most else).

Thanks for the advice so far :D

Use my Urgrosh build posted above. Its got a lot of the offence that you need, plus all of the defenses that you crave. Its a weapons master of a very unique and awesomesause weapon, the Dwarven Urgrosh, and its remarkably close to what you already have with your Figher2/Barbarian2. Its good.

Frenzied Berzerker is ok, if you can control yourself. The best ways to do this are with Cumbersome Will and/or Steadfast Determination and/or Ironheart Surge from Tome of Battle. Regardless, search this forum for Frenzied Berzerker and Friendly Berzerker for a few threads on the class for more details.

Hope this helps!
#10
NiteCyper
Dec 30, 2008 22:15:11
Some cheese is ok since melee classes generally need it to stack up later in the game. Just nothing crazy like the Omnicifier.

That one made me smile. Let me put it into perspective:
Newbie: O HAI. Optimize my fighter, please.
Boards: OK, Hulking Hurler s'good?

Point is, you expect us to seriously thoughtfully rationally consider having you use any such over-powered build? That is, with common sense and without humor?
In any case, not Omniscifer, Druid 20.
#11
natenate
Dec 30, 2008 22:19:04 Barbarian 1/ Fighter 2/ Hexblade 2/ Occult Slayer 5/ Frenzied Berserker 10 should do it, use the Lion spiritual totem form Complete Champion to get Pounce in place of Fast Movement. Take Extra Rage twice and get a Valorous weapon, possibly with Magebane. Using Leap Attack you'll eventually get +8 damage per -1 to hit, and then your total damage gets doubled. Take Righteous Wrath from BoED and/or Martial Study for Iron Heart Surge so you won't cause a TPK every time you stub your toe. The "best" race to use for that would be Water Orc with Dragonborn of Bahamut, though just about any race will work.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 thegrumbliestpuppy Dec 30, 2008 6:56:11	Hey, I need help making a melee build that's powerful enough to keep being useful in my campaign. (Is it even possible to be an all melee class that can be on par with a cleric or druid?) The only rule is, no magic (unless it makes sense)! My dwarf hates magic and elves, so, mixing in cleric, or whatever, doesn't work. I was planning on going Weapons Master until I figured out it doesn't exist in 3.5 Right now I'm a level 2 fighter, level 2 barbarian. (oh and he uses throwing weapons sometimes, the dm allowed for my throwing axes to be str based, not dex) Thanks!
#2 pithica Dec 30, 2008 7:33:28	The only 'non-magical' classes/builds that really even come close to casters are the one's in Book of Nine Swords. And even then, if your DM doesn't squash the really broken caster crap (Timestop, Gate, Shapechange, etc ad nauseum), it's not very close. That said, I can think of a few builds that will make you at least 'feel' useful as the BSF... Compilation of Low Level Builds Optimal Builds for Each Level Warrior Build Thread Gattlin Chain Gun Tripper Jack B Quick Fighter Machine Gun Rogue Halfling Thrower The Reason Gnome's aren't in 4th Ed Lester the Molester Obviously, not all of them will work, but they may give you an idea of the kinds of things your interested in, and can ask a more specific question. You may want to include what books you are allowed to pull from when you do, as that's the only way you'll get 'custom' help around here.
#3 immolate Dec 30, 2008 7:35:25	Hey, I need help making a melee build that's powerful enough to keep being useful in my campaign. (Is it even possible to be an all melee class that can be on par with a cleric or druid?) The only rule is, no magic (unless it makes sense)! My dwarf hates magic and elves, so, mixing in cleric, or whatever, doesn't work. I was planning on going Weapons Master until I figured out it doesn't exist in 3.5 Right now I'm a level 2 fighter, level 2 barbarian. (oh and he uses throwing weapons sometimes, the dm allowed for my throwing axes to be str based, not dex) Thanks! By himself, that is without buffs from someone else, it isn't really possible for a straight melee to equal an optimized druid or cleric, but don't let that stop you from having fun. Exotic Weapons Master is in 3.5, Complete Warrior page 30. Not the same thing: this one's a PRC, but some flavor in common. My suggestion would have been to be a dungeon crasher, but you've already taken fighter 2 so that's out. The progression for that build is F1 (Power Attack, Improved Bullrush), F2 (Dungeon Crasher), F3 (Knockback), F6 (Dungeon Crasher, Shock Trooper). The lvl 4 feat could be used for Exotic Weapons Proficiency if going the controller route or something else that synergizes with dungeon crasher. I'm not well-versed in the charger/pouncer builds, which is another oft-used strategy on these boards, but I assume that doing that as a dwarf is decidedly sub-optimal because of the reduced base move. Depending on the flavor you're looking for in your dwarf, you might want to read and familiarize yourself with Tome of Battle. Both Crusader and Warblade can offer some really interesting choices with a pure-martial character. They have many 4E-style abilities in the form of martial maneuvers and stances without using magic. Very much a martial devotee approach, if you see your dwarf as a practitioner of the "art" of war.
#4 thegrumbliestpuppy Dec 30, 2008 7:57:51	Haha, I suppose I should give some backstory. My DM is a very fair DM, and we are not a generally crazy Munchkin group. The druid is brand-new and god-awful (doesn't show up half the time, and we've almost killed him off 3 times by now. He's a good role-player though) The cleric is a good optimizer. He plays more as support though since he's the co-dm and is technically an npc (though he plays as a pc sorta). The Sorcerer is going Pale-Master just for the role-playing of the character. The swash-buckler is meh, and the ranger is pretty decent (she's an elf, so her character and mine fight often). My character is basically a Slayer from the Warhammer universe http://www.tentonhammer.com/system/files/images/NPC_Gotrek.preview.jpg. Yes, my goal is to get the group killed occasionally, seeing as my characters goal is to have a glorious death :D. All books are allowed. Some cheese is ok since melee classes generally need it to stack up later in the game. Just nothing crazy like the Omnicifier. I wear mithril armor so that I can get my dexterity armor-bonus and so that I keep my movement speed +10 bonus from being a barbarian. I want a character that exceeds in killing things, but more-so can stand up to and take out magicians (or at least not be made useless by them from a simple "hold" spell). Is dipping in occult slayer any good? Any ideas are welcome.
#5 pithica Dec 30, 2008 8:14:10	If all books are allowed, open your Tome of Battle to page 20 and read the Warblade class. It's exactly what you're looking for.
#6 Wyvernhand Dec 30, 2008 11:09:29	My Dwarven Urgrosh build. You have to be a dwarf though. Its good. Very beefy, very dwarfy. Devout, sketchy about magic, and good at hitting things REALLY hard.
#7 pithica Dec 30, 2008 12:44:42	Nice build...other than the fact that the OP took the Barbie and Meatsack levels first (and not ranger), he can otherwise completely do your build.
#8 thegrumbliestpuppy Dec 30, 2008 20:06:46	My dm is pretty much fine with me redoing my levels at this point, since I had told him at the beginning of the campaign that I was planning on going weapon master, and then suddenly we both found out it doesn't exist in 3.5 :P I like the Warblade build, it basically seems like what the fighter class should be (not useless). Is the frenzied barbarian any good? I guess this was a 2-part question: Do you have any advice for me, and which melee classes are better than others (for instance, I've heard monks suck, fighters mostly suck, and not much about most else). Thanks for the advice so far :D
#9 Wyvernhand Dec 30, 2008 22:06:43	My dm is pretty much fine with me redoing my levels at this point, since I had told him at the beginning of the campaign that I was planning on going weapon master, and then suddenly we both found out it doesn't exist in 3.5 :P I like the Warblade build, it basically seems like what the fighter class should be (not useless). Is the frenzied barbarian any good? I guess this was a 2-part question: Do you have any advice for me, and which melee classes are better than others (for instance, I've heard monks suck, fighters mostly suck, and not much about most else). Thanks for the advice so far :D Use my Urgrosh build posted above. Its got a lot of the offence that you need, plus all of the defenses that you crave. Its a weapons master of a very unique and awesomesause weapon, the Dwarven Urgrosh, and its remarkably close to what you already have with your Figher2/Barbarian2. Its good. Frenzied Berzerker is ok, if you can control yourself. The best ways to do this are with Cumbersome Will and/or Steadfast Determination and/or Ironheart Surge from Tome of Battle. Regardless, search this forum for Frenzied Berzerker and Friendly Berzerker for a few threads on the class for more details. Hope this helps!
#10 NiteCyper Dec 30, 2008 22:15:11	Some cheese is ok since melee classes generally need it to stack up later in the game. Just nothing crazy like the Omnicifier. That one made me smile. Let me put it into perspective: Newbie: O HAI. Optimize my fighter, please. Boards: OK, Hulking Hurler s'good? Point is, you expect us to seriously thoughtfully rationally consider having you use any such over-powered build? That is, with common sense and without humor? In any case, not Omniscifer, Druid 20.
#11 natenate Dec 30, 2008 22:19:04	Barbarian 1/ Fighter 2/ Hexblade 2/ Occult Slayer 5/ Frenzied Berserker 10 should do it, use the Lion spiritual totem form Complete Champion to get Pounce in place of Fast Movement. Take Extra Rage twice and get a Valorous weapon, possibly with Magebane. Using Leap Attack you'll eventually get +8 damage per -1 to hit, and then your total damage gets doubled. Take Righteous Wrath from BoED and/or Martial Study for Iron Heart Surge so you won't cause a TPK every time you stub your toe. The "best" race to use for that would be Water Orc with Dragonborn of Bahamut, though just about any race will work.