I just Realized, Wizard might work better. But the spontaneous casting is just so useful...help on that would be nice too.
Not to mention an extra 2 AC that is hard to come by for a monk.
Also, consider either monk/psywar/Fist of Zuoken for the sake of the Expansion power, or Monk/WuJen/Enlightened Fist for the sake of the WuJen only spell "Giant Size"
Nothing says "pwnd" like being able to use the colossal size damage table for monks ;)
Alternatively, skip monk, and go unarmed Swordsage variant instead, and multi with WuJen, and go into the Jade Phoenix Mage PrC. Same effect, but you get martial adept maneuvers to go with it!
you should look at some threads for multiple threat characters, with all those good stats you can quite easily fill several roles
You don't want to be a Warforged. Not for any reason. Every time someone plays a Warforged Satan feeds a kitten to Hitler.
I would say a Paladin / Sorc or Paladin / Wizard gish would be the way I would go. Maybe a Monk dip for Wis to AC AFTER you get some levels of Abjurant Champion and stop actually wearing armor.
For no other reason than your stats will be better than everyone else, and they'll hold it against you. So play a crappy race to balance things out.
Honestly though, to avoid resentment you should either play something traditionally underpowered (and Monk is a good example), or play something that beefs up everybody else. Divine Mind, Marshal, Bard, and Dragon Shaman all qualify under both categories, and can be fun to play in the right hands. Mix and match to taste. Consult my "Aura Master" build in my thread for one possibility. I recommend keeping a separate sheet of paper with markers on it to track all your various and ever-changing buffs.
Does Giant Size make you bigger? I saw a spell that makes count as bigger but not actually grow bigger...or something
Theres a spell in RotD, Greater Mighty Wallop, that basically it gives you Extra Damage as if you were larger (bludgeoning only), without the bad effects of being larger. It gives you a +5 to your size at 20CL.
Draconic Human, Paladin
Drow, Necromancer
Gnome, Bard
Human, Psion
I'm not a huge (if at all) fan of Paladin flavor, full devotion to Lawfulness and Goodness, plus the way they play out just doesn't interest me that much. I've always wondered what a truly Optimized Monk can do, and I just don't feel that this is a chance I want to pass up. I really like Enlightened Fist, even though my build for that only gets one level of Monk but really, I am not complaining. I would use Sorc, forfieting 9th level spells (I know, it's sad) for a combination of Spontaneos casting and a level of Shiba Protector, which seems to require me to be human.
A monk/palladin can be a fun character, and you definitely have the stats to pull it off. Monk/Cleric/Sacred Fist with DMM: Persistent Spell is another thing to consider.
Human- monk1/Sorcerer4/EF10/Shiba Protector 1/Sorcerer4
This build will give me up to 8th level spells, Damage as a 20th level monk with Monks Belt and Superior Unarmed Strike, and wisdom to Attack and Damage. I think that gives me what I think this character should be able to do, and with the retraining/rebuilding rules in the PHBII if I feel that I need a complete character Make-over (couldn't resist sorry) then you will hear from me again. Thanks again!
Hope to be one someday you know...
Theres a spell in RotD, Greater Mighty Wallop, that basically it gives you Extra Damage as if you were larger (bludgeoning only), without the bad effects of being larger. It gives you a +5 to your size at 20CL.
The Giant Size stat bonuses pretty much obliterate the negative effects of enlargement. +32 strength, -2 dex, +12 con, +12 AC. So the -8 attack/AC penalty is ignored, and you actually have a net gain on them. You gain +8 attack (due to +16 str modifier - 8) and +4 AC. AND you get a colossal creature's reach.
Downsides are few.
Sure you'll be doing 1 damage a hit, but with +9 to hit(finesse) and such lovelly things as sneak attack, you will be an utter MONSTER. did I mention the 40 base speed, huge hide/move silently bonuses, the ability to speak with rats, and the fact that your creature type is vermin(no charm person for you).
Could you make a white dragonspawn, jermalaine monk, with shield, Mage armor, and reduce person as his spells....
10base+7dex+7wis+4mage armor+4shieldspell+4size(reduce person)+7natural = 42 ac as a lvl 2 toon? count me in!!!(would his dex bonus go up with the size reduction? pushing the AC higher?)
the possibilities are endless.
oooh just thought of something, if this campaign is not going that high in lvls.... throw in vow of poverty. get that AC upto 49 at lvl 2.... then laugh as no one can hit the mighty mouse of doom.
Thanks for everyones Imput, it has been very useful. I think I am going to play with this build, starting at level 2-
Human- monk1/Sorcerer4/EF10/Shiba Protector 1/Sorcerer4
This build will give me up to 8th level spells, Damage as a 20th level monk with Monks Belt and Superior Unarmed Strike, and wisdom to Attack and Damage. I think that gives me what I think this character should be able to do, and with the retraining/rebuilding rules in the PHBII if I feel that I need a complete character Make-over (couldn't resist sorry) then you will hear from me again. Thanks again!
You might wanna finnish the build with Abjurant champion instead of sorcerer 4.
I second Wu Gen/Enlightened Fist combo.
Human Factotum.
All 18's?
Human Factotum/Chameleon.
I like that better.
Are you sure you want to play a monk? Even with great stats, they never really shine in a party.
YOU SURE? Want me to dig up the thing with 48d100 unarmed damage/attack? :P
Keep in mind that Sacred Fist can't use any weapon.
I was going to use unarmed strikes as my main weapon either way, but losing Shuriken might hurt, except that I will have spells for that. I just want to know what is Statistically more powerful, Monk/Wu Jen/Enlightened Fist or Monk/(Cleric or Druid...can't decide)/Sacred Fist?
From what I can see, and I am no expert on Optimization, Enlightened fist gives you worse Base Attack Bonus, better Will save but worse Fort, Arcane casting vs. Divine casting (which is even lower fort saves, and even worse Base Attack Bonus, and a casting stat that is different then my Monk stat), but Focuses more on Spellcasting while attacking. Sacred fist, on the other hand, has Higher BAB (not to mention Divine caster levels giving higher BAB then Arcane caster levels), worse Will saves (but higher wisdom since it would be both my casting stat and my Monk stat, which improves will saves), better Fort saves (and even higher since Divine spellcaster levels give good Fort saves), but less focus on spellcasting and more focus on hitting things with my fists, and dealing more damage with them. I really can't tell which has the stronger potential, but they both sound so much fun.
Speaking of Jermlaines, did they get SA or something? Because otherwise the idea would be pretty... well... useless.
It does say that, thanks for pointing that out. That leaves a level open for Shiba Protector, without losing 9th level spells (that also means I can begin with a seccond level of monk, one less feat I have to worry about). Thanks for pointing that out. So what I think I will do, and people will give me suggestions what I should do after I finish SF, but so far- Cleric1/Monk2/Cleric3/Sacred Fist 10/Shiba Protector 1/Cleric 3. How does that look?
Following the last post, take a PrC for those last 3 levels, since you aren't really worrying about any cleric-level based abilities.
Also, as per the now favorite thing to do: Cloistered Cleric at first level for Knowledge Devotion.
If you play your cards right, you will get another +5 attack/damage against pretty much anything out there.
Since you are going Wis-heavy: go dwarf, and use Ancestral Knowledge [Races of Stone] (use Knowledge untrained, and with Wis rather than Int). :D
~P_X~
Paladin 2, monk X. Go wizard hunting. Things like grapple may be good.
I don't care even if he got Paragon's ability score adjustments on top of that, fighting Wizards still isn't smart.
You should be a kobold.
For no other reason than your stats will be better than everyone else, and they'll hold it against you. So play a crappy race to balance things out.
crappy
?with D.wrought feat he could have this stats at 1st lvl as a kobold:
STR: 14
DEX: 20
CON: 16
INT: 21
WIS: 21
CHA: 21
plus the immunity to sleep paralysis...small size...+1 NA...etc etc....it doesn't seems too crappy imho :D
You should be a kobold.
For no other reason than your stats will be better than everyone else, and they'll hold it against you. So play a crappy race to balance things out.
Crappy? Far from it. Kobolds are one of the best races to play (and no, I am not joking). If he plays a Kobold, then he just needs the right tricks up his sleeves to be amazing.
...How could I get those stats with D. Wrought?
Being Venerable. Dragonwrought negates the penalties for aging for Kobolds, but the bonuses still apply.
Monk 2/ Psychic Warrior 2/ Barbarian (Pounce, Whirling Frenzy)1/ Warmind 10/ Warshaper 5
Feats:
Monastic Training [Warmind], Tashalatora [Warmind]
Rapidstrike, Improved Rapidstrike
Feral Changeling
Monk 2/ Psychic Warrior 2/ Barbarian (Pounce, Whirling Frenzy)1/ Warmind 10/ Warshaper 5
Feats:
Monastic Training [Warmind], Tashalatora [Warmind]
Rapidstrike, Improved Rapidstrike
IIRC, Monstrous Humanoid doesn't qualify for Rapidstrike. Elans and Synads do though. So use Elan instead.
IIRC, Monstrous Humanoid doesn't qualify for Rapidstrike. Elans and Synads do though. So use Elan instead.
My bad, good catch.
My bad, good catch.
No problem.
There is approximately a 1 in 1 billion chance of getting all 18s on 4d6 drop lowest.
To put it in perspective, if all of the estimated 20 million people that have ever played the D&D game rolled a character at this moment, there would only be a 2% chance one of them would get a character with all 18s.
You are 250x more likely to win the lottery than roll a character with all 18s.
On average, a person would have to roll over 34,000 characters every day of their 80 year life to get one character with those stats.
Congratulations!
There is approximately a 1 in 1 billion chance of getting all 18s on 4d6 drop lowest.
To put it in perspective, if all of the estimated 20 million people that have ever played the D&D game rolled a character at this moment, there would only be a 2% chance one of them would get a character with all 18s.
You are 250x more likely to win the lottery than roll a character with all 18s.
On average, a person would have to roll over 34,000 characters every day of their 80 year life to get one character with those stats.
If they were rolled in front of the group with dice loaned to him from the DM, then there is nothing wrong with all 18's. Aside from him being balls-lucky.
Congratulations!
There is approximately a 1 in 1 billion chance of getting all 18s on 4d6 drop lowest.
To put it in perspective, if all of the estimated 20 million people that have ever played the D&D game rolled a character at this moment, there would only be a 2% chance one of them would get a character with all 18s.
You are 250x more likely to win the lottery than roll a character with all 18s.
On average, a person would have to roll over 34,000 characters every day of their 80 year life to get one character with those stats.
...I would have perferred to win the lottery, I'll be honest.
...I would have perferred to win the lottery, I'll be honest.
=)
Crappy? Far from it. Kobolds are one of the best races to play (and no, I am not joking). If he plays a Kobold, then he just needs the right tricks up his sleeves to be amazing.
yeah and with alter self u can become a tiny dragon with a flying speed of 150...a +2 to AC a +7 to NA +2 to hit roll...etc etc...immunity to paralysis 'n sleep...and many others bonuses :D
yeah and with alter self u can become a tiny dragon with a flying speed of 150...a +2 to AC a +7 to NA +2 to hit roll...etc etc...immunity to paralysis 'n sleep...and many others bonuses :D
Or a Half-Dragon Lizardfolk. Medium too, you know?
Or a Half-Dragon Lizardfolk. Medium too, you know?
wow nope thx a lot :D what book is it in? i could try it in the next session :D
wow nope thx a lot :D what book is it in? i could try it in the next session :D
Half-Dragon and Lizardfolk are both Core. MM.
Well since you all have been so nice about helping me out with thie build, should I or should I not use the Vow of Poverty?
Monks are very Item-dependent. No.
Monks are very Item-dependent. No.
Well that hurts my AC...down from 28 to 24...ouch...
You should be a kobold.
For no other reason than your stats will be better than everyone else, and they'll hold it against you. So play a crappy race to balance things out.
I second the Kobold.
A Desert, Whitedragonspawn, Dragonwrought Kobold Sorceror6/Switblade10/Abjurant Champion6 with the Greater Draconic Ritual.
If they're going to hate you, you may as well make the most of it.
I second the Kobold.
A Desert, Whitedragonspawn, Dragonwrought Kobold Sorceror6/Switblade10/Abjurant Champion6 with the Greater Draconic Ritual.
If they're going to hate you, you may as well make the most of it.
I've said this before, I'll say it again.
Kobolds do EVERYTHING better.
Cloistered Cleric 1/ Monk 2/ Cloistered Cleric 3/ Sacred Fist 10/ Fist of the Forest 1/ Shiba Protector 1/ Cloistered Cleric 2
Race: Dwarf
Feats of note: Knowledge Devotion (CC), Ancestral Knowledge (RoS). Int becomes a 'dump stat', so it doesn't need to be higher than 18. Ever.
You can grab Great Fortitude with the Dwarf domain (SC), and get Power Attack, just because it's good for a melee cleric.
You get Wis + Con to AC.
Casts spells as a 16th-level cleric. 17th if you wanted, just drop Shiba Protector.
~P_X~
besides, i think there is some optimized spellcaster rule that says you shouldnt lose more than 3 levels of spellcasting unless what you are gaining is better than 9th level spells [and it isnt].
He wanted a high AC without VoP. Getting effectively three ability scores to AC, plus natural/insight/deflection/shield/armor(magical bonus not physical) bonuses, he should have a fairly high AC.
Before stat-boosting items/level-ups: 48 = 10 + 8 (bracers) + 2 (force shield) + 4 (dex) + 4 (wis) + 4 (con) + 1 (insight) + 5 (deflection) + 1 (monk's belt) + 5 (natural)
Heck, get a Belt of Magnificence (Minis Handbook), and your stats are all 24, making your AC jump to 57. Or just boost Str/Dex/Wis/Con +6 each.
~P_X~
Screw kobolds and races with LA.
Cloistered Cleric 1/ Monk 2/ Cloistered Cleric 3/ Sacred Fist 10/ Fist of the Forest 1/ Shiba Protector 1/ Cloistered Cleric 2
Race: Dwarf
Feats of note: Knowledge Devotion (CC), Ancestral Knowledge (RoS). Int becomes a 'dump stat', so it doesn't need to be higher than 18. Ever.
You can grab Great Fortitude with the Dwarf domain (SC), and get Power Attack, just because it's good for a melee cleric.
You get Wis + Con to AC.
Casts spells as a 16th-level cleric. 17th if you wanted, just drop Shiba Protector.
~P_X~
That doesn't work. Sacred Fist has a BAB requirment of +4, unless that has been updated or anything. The Cloistered cleric says it uses Poor BAB, which would mean I would need 2 more levels of Cleric before I could enter it. If this has been changed, then please let me know, I would be glad to use this build.
That doesn't work. Sacred Fist has a BAB requirment of +4, unless that has been updated or anything. The Cloistered cleric says it uses Poor BAB, which would mean I would need 2 more levels of Cleric before I could enter it. If this has been changed, then please let me know, I would be glad to use this build.
So then go: Cloistered Cleric 2/ Monk 2/ Cloistered Cleric 5/ Sacred Fist 10/ Fist of the Forest 1
Problem solved. If you are going for a level 20 build, just move levels of base classes around...
~P_X~
Also, you get a great AC that way, but your strength takes a huge hit, AND you're at like -8 on trip, disarm, and bull rush attempts, even against medium creatures on top of that.
Kind of sucks.