2E Modular Ideas in 5E

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

Zardnaar

Apr 29, 2015 14:09:53

AD&D has been dead as such for 15 years now. I do not really have a favourite edition of D&D as such but if I had to pick one to get stuck on a desert island with I would probably pick 2E even with its mechanics like THAC0 (which is easy to convert to BAB anyway). The reason for this was because 2E IMHO was the most customable version of D&D ever made. This was because the core books were full of optional rules and the settings and splat books often focused on campaign type stuff as opposed to mechanical splat that plagued 3E and 4E to the point where they collapsed under their own bloat. 2E also had bloat problems but it was more settings and splat books as opposed to mechanical bloat. I may not be playing core rules on my desert island assuming my books and potential players washedup with me.

 

 During the playtest for 5E they also promised it would be modular. The downside of this is I think it raised people’s expectations over what would be modular or not. I had a rough idea over what to expect which was more or less what we got but others seemed to think one would have multiple skill systems and ways to radically rebuild the classes etc. 2E did let you do that but most of it was in later splat books. What could one do in 2E and how much of it would be applicable to 5E? To start things off I will use the Fighter as an example. In modern D&D we all have a reasonable idea what the fighter is in 2E it depends. For example here are 4 fighters.

 

1.       This fighter is straight from the PHB. It is actually weaker than the 1E fighter from the 1977 PHB and it is in effect a warrior from 3E with d10 hit dice and better saves.

 

2.       Fighter 2 is from the PHB but this DM allows the weapon specialization rules into the game. This fighter gains +1 to hit, +2 damage and an extra attack every round or every 2nd round depending on the weapon. Said DM also uses the optional weapon and non weapon proficiency system so this fighter has skills and quasi feats. The DM may even allow the fighters high intelligence to turn extra non weapon proficiencies into weapon proficiencies. In 3.5 terms for each point of intelligence bonus you had you get a bonus feat.

 

3.       Fighter 3 is similar to fighter 2 but the DM is using the fighters hand book. This added more weapons like the rapier to the game and kits. Kits are like a sub class so you might have a barbarian, swashbuckler or myrmidon fighter and it is assumed you are using the optional WP/NWP system. Most of the kits offered less mechanical benefit than 5E subclasses.

 

4.       Fighter 4 rocks on up and this game is using the Skills and Powers and Combat and Tactics books. In effect you get character points and can point buy your own race and class. This fighter may have a d12 hit dice or multiple weapon specialization. Your Elf might have Drow blood and can use Drow spell like abilities but otherwise be a surface elf fighter.

 

 

This is just a basic example of 2Es modularity. In our games fighter 3 was the default. Casters and caddies did not exist in our games as we also used weapon speed so there were tactical considerations of using smaller weapons (daggers, darts, short swords) over larger weapons such as great swords and long swords. Smaller weapons especially magical versions were better for interrupting spell casters as a single point of damage could fizzle a spell if you beat the spell caster for initiative. A level 7 fighter could kill a level 18 wizard in a single round as the level 18 wizard would have an average of 33 hit points. Combat and Tactics also offered 4 pages of weapon selections, guns, and critical hit location tables for added carnage.

 

 In addition the core rules of 2E also encouraged that you design your own classes. The DMG had a table where you could point buy your own character so if you wanted a fighter who could cast arcane spells you could do that. You might have to pay the piper though in terms of an xp penalty. In theory you could have a d12 hit dice and all wizard spells and fighter abilities as well just do not expect to level up very fast.  In addition the PHB had specialty priest in it and used the Druid as an example. One could create your own priest in effect creating your own domain in 5E rules. This concept was expanded in the Priests Handbook and later 2E material.  I think this is where they are kind of trying to go with the online Unearthed Arcana ideas.

 

Settings. If anything defined 2E over other editions of the game I would say it would be the settings. The Realms was very popular in terms of material supporting it and several 3E concepts had their genesis there. The Realms was still somewhat generic but Darksun, Ravenloft and Planescape all made drastic changes to the assumptions of the core D&D game. Spelljammer was the 1st 2E setting released and you could sail magical starships through space. 5E at least has acknowledged the other worlds and settings exist and I suspect Darksun, Ravenloft and Planescape would obvious candidates for a “new” setting. 2E also saw the eclipse of Greyhawk, Mystara and Dragonlance as FR became the most popular TSR setting. After the WoTC buyout most of the settings got canned but Greyhawk got a relative push in the lead up to 3.0.

 

Campaign dials. This is something I would like to see come back in 5E. 3E kind of went there but only in superficial ways. Basically some 2E books varied the amount of technology and magic available and printed books to support it. The Barbarians Handbook and Combat and Tactics covered caveman stone age through to the 17th century in terms of equipment and had tables showing you what equipment one could have in each era. If you ever wanted to play a Polish Hussar type PC well there you go. Some Ravenloft material pushed into the Victorian Era but I am not to familiar with that material as I did not like Ravenloft. Polish Hussar armour also turns up in Castles and Crusades. This is very easy to include in 5E although you may need to expand the armour and equipment tables. Plate armour for example would not exist in most of the time periods and no rapiers either. Darksun and the Barbarian Handbook had rules for stone, bone and wood weapons. Just think of how the game would change in 5E if you had a Crusades era game where rapiers and plate armor did not exist. In a Roman Game Lorrica Segmentia might be refluffed Breastplate or have the same game stats as plate armor. Short swords get a lot better and the pike/sarissa/longspear may be the best two handed weapon available.

 

 Magic could also be toned down. TSR made historical campaign settings books covering ancient Greece and Rome, the Vikings, Crusades, and a Mighty Fortress which entered the 16th Elizabethan England. Fighting styles included Spanish and Italian options. These books had various rules to tone down the default levels of magic. Priests got toned down and even lost all their spells depending on the level of magic desired. One could have spell casting Christian and Islamic priests in a fantasy earth based game. Some setting also went in this direction with changes to arcane magic in Darksun and the default wizard in Birthright who could only cast spells form a single school of magic past level 3 spells. Of course you could mix things up so you could have a high magic no Roman empire with guns and flying castles or a stone age setting with very low or high levels of magic. DMs Option: High Level Campaign actually gave ratings for technology and magic with rules to adjust the settings. Very low magic and dragons become extinct, very high levels and everyone casts spells as the magic is in their blood.

 

 Game of Thrones.

 2E would be the best edition to duplicate Game of Thrones, IMHO. Low magic setting (NPC only spellcasters), the nights watch could be rangers with no spells (built using skills and powers) 1 hp/day recovery with Combat and Tactics critical hit tables (combat hurts). Probaly 4 classes available (Barbarian, Thief, Fighter, tweaked Ranger). Note the 2E Barbarian is not a rager. 

 

 Oh well I will leave it there. These are just a few of the ideas that I have though up after flicking through my 2E material and PDFs. Some of them could be used or mined for ideas in 5E as well. Note not all of the options mentioned in this thread were actully good ideas. Fighter optiion 4 was actually a bad idea but you could do it. 

 

Historical Reference Books (mostly fluff and ideas)

http://www.rpgnow.com/product/110324/HR1HR7-Historical-Reference-Series-2e-BUNDLE?term=historical+refer

 

Combat and Tactics (armor, weapons, critical hit tables, historical time periods, 

http://www.rpgnow.com/product/16862/Players-Option--Combat--Tactics-2e?it=1

 

Most of the other books mentioned are to tied to 2E mechancis to be overly useful in 5E. 

 

#2

Artifact

Apr 29, 2015 16:02:39

2e gave later editions of D&D Elven Trance.  

 

As described in the 5e PHB, elves don't sleep but rather meditate deeply, remaining semiconscious.  They do this for 4 hours a day and gain the same benefits of 8 hours of traditional sleep.  This was mentioned first in Complete Book of Elves (for 2e), described as 'reverie', and later in the 3e and 5e PHB.  In 4e, eladrin get trance.

 

3e clarified demihuman infravision as either darkvision (dwarves, half-orcs) or low-light vision (elves, half-elves, gnomes).  Some halfling subraces had infravision in 2e but nothing was mentioned in the 3e PHB.  Elves and gnomes again have darkvision in 5e.

 

Just a couple of things I find interesting .

 

= = =

 

I swiped the idea of 'communion' from the Complete Book of Elves for use by devas (who in our 4e homebrew, reincarnate in groups of two, four, or six 'twinned' pairs.  It seemed to compliment the ideas of deva 'bonded incarnation', 'soul recognition', and 'transcending' (taken from the 4e article Ecology of the Deva, from Dragon 374).

 

Stuff that appeared years ago, in books that are long outta print, even this stuff can inspire new ideas.  Love it .

 

 

 

.

 

#3

EthanSental

Apr 29, 2015 16:36:51

Good stuff Zard, trip down memory lane with the recollections above.

#4

arnwolf666

Apr 30, 2015 19:08:34

I really liked how earlier editions really encouraged you to create and customize settings.  They actually encouraged you to tweak and change rules to suit your needs.

#5

SirAntoine

Apr 30, 2015 20:18:24

arnwolf666 wrote:
#6

MechaPilot

Apr 30, 2015 20:30:14

arnwolf666 wrote:
#7

Zardnaar

Apr 30, 2015 21:10:41

MechaPilot wrote:
#8

MechaPilot

Apr 30, 2015 21:19:41

Zardnaar wrote:
(Reply to #4)

AaronOfBarbaria

arnwolf666 wrote:
#10

ORC_Cricket

Apr 30, 2015 22:43:40

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#11

Brock_Landers

Apr 30, 2015 22:53:00

AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
#12

SirAntoine

Apr 30, 2015 23:19:50

AaronOfBarbaria wrote: