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| #1Darrius_AdlerSep 26, 2014 6:05:31 | Ok, so putting this up as work in progress. This is what I have so far for the Dragon Shaman as its own 5e base class. What do you guys think?:
Hit Points Proficiencies Saving Throws: Wisdom and Charisma Skills: Choose two from Athletics, Arcana, Intimidation, Nature, Perception (Also see Totem Dragon class feature for additional skills) Equipment
Totem Dragon [table]
Energy Shield: Any creature striking you or your ally with a natural attack or a non-reach melee weapon is dealt energy damage based on your Dragon Shaman level: Energy Resistance Breath Weapon Extra Attack Touch of Vitality Draconic Adaptation Black—Water Breathing: You can breathe underwater indefinitely and can freely use spells and other abilities underwater (always active). Greater Touch of Vitality Draconic Resolve Energy Immunity Draconic Wings Commune with Dragon Spirit Draconic Resistance Dragon Soul
[table] |
| #2Darrius_AdlerSep 26, 2014 6:14:29 | Hmmmmm, I had nicely formated tables that worked elsewhere, not sure why they are not working here. |
| #3rampantSep 29, 2014 11:21:53 | 3 big things
1.) THis is almost a copy of the 3e version I want you to think hard about how to spice this up a bit.
2.) THe dragon totems are pretty wickedly unbalanced, especially the initial choice where some get one skill and other get 2 or even three
3.) A some of the auras are kind of sloppy, power for example just adds a damage boost, to what? to who? Also make sure your auras don't require weapon users to be effective, that was part of the reason the 3e marshall tanked, he lost all offensive presence unless your party had a lot of weapon users.
General issues: THe ressiliance vs. spells is questionable I mean a lot of things aren't gonna be spells, ther emight be powers, melds, breath weapons, if the aura costs concentration, and you can't concentration just call it concentration and be done with it, don't involve the madness that is polymorph in a class you actually like, for people who already have wings how about a nice +15 ft speed? |
| (Reply to #3)Darrius_Adler |
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| #5Joe_the_RatSep 30, 2014 11:01:51 | Oh good, someone else came up with this first.
I have an unusual like for this class. It has an interesting flavor, and an odd power set which is almost tangential to the theme at times (front-line tough but not very marital, channeling "dragon power" to create effects, dragon healing, is like a caster but not a caster, etc.). Better defining what it's supposed to do would help. I've been tinkering in the back of my mind with how to convert, but as a subclass rather than a full class. I couldn't quite get the right fit. Warlock was a strong choice, ends up more like a DFA. Paladin, maybe? (SMITE BREATH!)
It seems thematically appropriate to have right now (ToD anyone?)... but they are sort of the bad guys, so maybe not.
But back to your setup...
Skills: See if you can pare/boost it to two extra options per dragon. As you are still only getting two skill selections, I don't think it will be too much.
Class features: Wings at 14. Thank you! Auras: Three total? That cuts a lot of their versatility/utility. Can we add one or two? Breath Weapon: Thumbs up on Recharge. You may also want to note that it resets after combat ends. The other approach would be to give a limited number of uses/short rest. Unless someone comes up with a clean system, stick with the Recharge. I am concerned about the damage keeping pace. At peak you have a 7d6 AoE that fires once every three rounds on average. So one, maybe two in a given battle. Is a 24.5 average AoE sufficient for 18th level? Touch of Vitality: You could give them the Greater aspects at the same time (as Paladins now do), and replace the Greater Touch with Shared Adaptation (allies within 30' gain benefit of your Draconic Adaptation, if you choose). Also consider making the multiplier "Charisma modifier (minimum 1)", unless you are absolutely comforable with this entire feature being inaccessible to CHA 11 or less. Draconic Adaptations: I liked Blue Dragon's Ventriloquism... Make sure to note that if the mimicked spells require concentration, the adaptation does not. Shared Adaptation, however, should when appropriate. |
| (Reply to #5)Darrius_Adler |
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| #7Joe_the_RatSep 30, 2014 12:32:20 | Ah, missed the auras gained in there. No, 3 at a time should be more than enough. Concentration will be interesting: As the DS has some decent tanky qualities, there's always the risk of the auras being broken by an attack (which lasts until your next turn).
Hmm... Share Adaptation would actually be good as an aura-type effect - using it replaces one of your active auras. Or if you bring in some additional aura choices (Dragon Magic I think?), that gives you one more option to choose from. DS should still be capped at 7 choices.
re: breath damage: Yeah, playtest it before fiddling too much. Something else you could experiment with is at higher levels the DS can use the breath weapon, then make a single attack as a Bonus Action.
And holy crap I forgot they removed fatigue. That's really handy in this edition. |
| #8rampantSep 30, 2014 14:04:51 | The turn into a dragon bit is a good idea, just don't use polymorph is all I'm saying.
Use the pathfinder approach or create a pre-set list of mods for the transformation, like nat armor +2, Str +4, Size boost, extra attacks, etc. All I'm saying is that polymorph is dicey.
As for the auras I'm not certain 3 at once is a good idea, especially given the potency some of them have, three seems like it would let players get away with just picking a set and never switching.
THings to consider:
1.) Do you wanna keep the d-shaman as being specific to a particular dragon type? because frankly spicing these guys up a bit as far as their damage versatility with that breath weapon would probably help things. Also we could create auras based on a dragon type and say that as long as that aura is up you use energy and breath shape for that type rather than trying to pin on these wierd totem powers.
2.) IF you don't take option one consider an aura based on the dragon feat power, if you do I think the red aura would be a good place for it.
3.) Do you want the transformation to be a theme of the class or just a cap stone? |
| #9Darrius_AdlerOct 02, 2014 16:40:12 |
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| #10rampantOct 03, 2014 15:46:35 | No it won't, because polymorph is a horribly written spell, especially when used in this manner, the dragon tribes are not equals so black and copper for example are getting shafted. If you want turning into a dragon to be the class capstone create a list of changes that need to be implemented during dragon form and build it from scratch so it can be applied equally to all shaman. 1. No, no groupings, just a generic shaman but your auras would be based on specifc tribes, now yes this would imply some changes like auras being more complex and we'd probably need to ditch a few abilities like the immunity, but it'd be more interesting IMO. Of course you could do it so d-shammies are based on a tribe group, so there's metallic shammies and chromatic shammies, and they'd be limited to auras of their own group. 2. I was talking about the suggestion labled 1. So if you ended up going with that suggestion the red aura would be fear based, if not then a general dragon fear aura would be nice. 4. (intentional because you answered my 3) Ok what if instead of making the individual auras based on dragons we let the totem be more important? I mean yeah you get a skill and your energy type and such but most of that happens at level 1 , and the advanced totem is kinda meh. What if we rip out some of the generic abilities and give the totems a level of power and influence like that of a sub-class. |
| #11MarandahirMay 15, 2015 14:59:38 | Might be worth revisiting the class as a Barbarian Primal Path instead. |
| #12LuisCarlos17fMay 16, 2015 6:35:25 | I like the concept, but maybe dragon shaman should be only a shaman class.
I have thought about the idea of some class features like monster traits (natural armour and weapons, breath attack, wings...)...and my suggestion is some monster trait could be replace with a optional "incarnum soulmeld". For example let´s imagine a characters doesn´t need wings because she has them by another prestige class or a monster class. Then only a extra point of essentia.
I I would like subtype for all no-core dragons, all, also the planar, the oriental lung and gemstone dragons.
The draconic auras aren´t interesting for me. They can be useful for gameplay, but they aren´t interesting for storytelling effects, and it isn´t fun gameplay to be used by me. Those auras ought to be for the marshall/warlord. |