Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 ZickZak Mar 06, 2015 16:54:36	Today we played an adventure that had something to do with Phandalin, Cragmaw, Agatha etc. I hope some of you know which one it is. We are level two, visiting a banshee and I got feared by her, run into a forest screaming, met an owlbear, died. Very encouraging to create a new character when after a day of playing I'm dead without doing anything bad. Like is this a standard to just flip a coin and "Oh dude! An owlbear! 23 points of damage. Do you have a backup character?"
#2 Mistwell Mar 06, 2015 18:04:02	No not typical.  But possible.  It sucks when it happens, but long term it makes the game a lot more fun to know death is possible, and you have to be careful.
#3 ChrisCarlson Mar 06, 2015 18:09:12	Why the heck did you run screaming into the woods?!
(Reply to #2) ZickZak	Yea I like it when death is possible. But how do you wanna be careful? I just rolled "not enough". The only way to be more careful would be not to talk to her and wait in the village while the rest of the party deals with her and she randomly fears somebody else before walking away. And it's not like I have pletoria of options on level 2 to escape something running way faster than me.
(Reply to #3) ZickZak	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#6 ChrisCarlson Mar 06, 2015 18:13:49	Sounds like your DM took liberties which resulted in your character's demise. That sucks.   But no, the frightened condition does not normally cause you to flee.
(Reply to #6) FrogReaver	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#8 ChrisCarlson Mar 06, 2015 18:30:17	Nope. Banshees just give you the frightened condition. Nothing more.
(Reply to #8) FrogReaver	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#10 pukunui Mar 06, 2015 19:02:48	I'm also wondering if maybe the party did something to offend Agatha. As written in the adventure, she doesn't automatically attack the PCs. She's actually intended to be a non-combat encounter. When I ran my group through that encounter, they managed just find. They got the information they were seeking and got out of there with nary a scratch. That being said, if one of them had been frightened by her and ran away, I certainly would not have determined that they ran right into an owlbear and died without any warning. If a DM did that to me, I wouldn't be particularly happy either.
#11 Psikerlord Mar 06, 2015 19:10:23	Mistwell wrote:
#12 Psikerlord Mar 06, 2015 19:11:48	ZickZak wrote:
#13 OoftaMeg Mar 06, 2015 20:02:40	The encounter was supposed to be non-combat (unless you do something really stupid) and the frightened condition does not cause you to run away.   In other words, you had a couple of bad calls by your dm.  Don't give up on the game because the guy screwed up.
#14 Noon Mar 06, 2015 20:51:26	But isn't ignoring the rules supposed to make play a magical nirvana? Oh actually it can suck...   Anyway, ZickZak, I think the other posters have answered your question - the DM went off the rules.   Though if it had been something that makes you run, the DM could say you ran into an owlbear. Some posters here would act as if that's against the rules, but really given the wide powers a DM is granted by the text, atleast by the text it's perfectly legit. It shows that granting wide powers to DM's doesn't always work out.
#15 Chakrum Mar 06, 2015 20:57:27	This is one of those times an argument can be made that a DM who doesn't know the rules and tries to run the game "freestyle" without preparation actually hurts the game.
#16 Tony_Vargas Mar 06, 2015 22:05:11	ZickZak wrote:
#17 Brock_Landers Mar 07, 2015 0:47:15	Tony_Vargas wrote:
#18 TheNovaLord Mar 07, 2015 3:08:32	It's still pretty new We all make mistakes Chat to gm out of game and explain the errors
#19 lawrencehoy Mar 07, 2015 10:20:12	Noon wrote:
#20 Farmer42 Mar 07, 2015 11:22:29	One does question why an owlbear was living within a minute of a hag's cabin, too.  That's within about two city blocks or so, and that's WAAAAAY closer than predators will willing get to each other.  All in all, I agree with the consensus.  Bad DM call was bad.  Which happens sometimes.  It has nothing to do with the mechanics.  In 5e, at least, Sorcerers and Wizards are likely to survive a run-in with a housecat at first level.  That wasn't true of any edition prior to 4e.
#21 OnlyNerdStuff Mar 07, 2015 13:02:16	SPOILER FOR LOST MINE OF PHANDELVER BELOW   As noted by most others, that wasn't scripted as a combat encounter.   Show She doesn't even HAVE stats listed in the adventure.  It explicitly states that she scowls and disappears if threatened and that "she does not attack them".
#22 BRJN Mar 07, 2015 15:42:39	If that DM was not confused about the rules (or just can't read), then there was already some sort of antagonism going on at the table.   From experience: Paladins have a first-level Smite spell which inflicts the Frightened condition.  This did not cause my enemy to run away - drat - but it did mean he could not willingly get closer to me.  (I wish this worked on arrows.)  I was free to run away from him, with no worries of being followed.   What this DM did, in effect, took control of the character out of the player's hands.  Foul !
#23 moonbeast Mar 07, 2015 16:45:17	I don't remember there being an Owlbear in that Starter Set Phandelver scenario.  However, there is a tiny possibility that your DM randomly "rolled up" a wandering (forest) monster which turned out to be a deadly Owlbear.  Or maybe he did not even bother rolling a dice.  The DM just made things up.... you got FEARED by a banshee (already a very formidable opponent for any Level 2 character), which caused your character to flee screaming into the forest, where the DM just nastily had an Owlbear waiting to maul your noisy screaming character.   Sounds like a killer DM to me.... one that intentionally gets a kick out of tearing newbie Characters to pieces.
#24 Rhenny Mar 07, 2015 17:47:18	I agree with what everyone is saying.   At low levels, random monsters can be really dangerous.  DMs should really have more control over the situations when the PCs are vulnerable.  This is also especially true when learning a new system.  It takes between 3-5 sessions to start to get the feel of the way monsters/combats work (at least for me).   I killed a 2nd level PC in my campaign by accident when I used random monsters.   I should have known better or I should have had the creatures run before it got bloody.  It was dramatic though.   In our game, only 2 players could make it to the game, so I let them scout ahead in a swamp and try to train a black dragon baby they found (Ghosts of Dragonspear Castle).   Since the monk was the one who the dragon bonded with when it hatched, he was trying to train it.   The monk and the fighter went out with the dragon, scouted ahead for a few miles, fought some giant frogs (easily) and then decided to head back to the rest of the group.   That's when I rolled on the random table.  8 Bullywugs attacked them.  At the time, I didn't realize that Bullywugs have 2 attacks each.  The monk was able to successfully command the dragon to breath on 2 of the Bullywugs, but after that he could not get the dragon to do what he wanted (Charisma - animal handling or diplomacy checks).  The dragon ended up eating the dead bullywugs and then flew over in circles overhead.   So, with 6 Bullywugs left, the monk and fighter tried to make a stand.   The monk and fighter took out 4 more of the bullywugs, but the fighter went down and rolled a failed death save.   The monk took out another bullywug so only 1 was left.   Before it ran, I decided to take one more multi-attack at the monk.  I rolled two natural "20s"!!!! The monk went down.   At this point the dragon came down and started nuzzling the unconscious monk.  The monk rolled a failure on a death save and the fighter failed a 2nd roll.   Then, the monk rolled another failure, but the fighter rolled a success.   After that, the monk rolled a natural "20" and was up at 1 hp.   Unfortunately, before he could go on his turn (I actually made a mistake and used 4e rules where the death save happens at the end of a turn instead of the 5e rules where the death save should happen at the beginning of the turn), the monk failed his 3rd death save.   Sad but true.  Well, it all turned out ok because the fighter player actually wanted to roll up a new character anyway, and my group in general likes the fear of death.   Anyway...OP, don't take it too hard.  DM error does not mean that the game is broken.
#25 CCS Mar 07, 2015 23:33:48	You know what? If I were 2nd lv I would NOT go visiting a banshee. No matter what the module intended. And if I encountered a banshee somehow? Then feared or not I WOULD run away. Especially if feared. Maybe not screaming, but definitely running. If that meant a 1% chance or whatever of stumbling upon an owlbear? Then so be it....
#26 Vahnyu Mar 08, 2015 5:24:25	CCS wrote:
#27 Brock_Landers Mar 08, 2015 6:10:28	If people have a problem with low-level fragility, just give the PCs an extra HD or two at 1st level, like 1st Ed (monk, ranger) and SWSE.     This edition is all about that sort of action.
(Reply to #27) OoftaMeg	Brock_Landers wrote:
#29 ChrisCarlson Mar 08, 2015 7:48:37	CCS wrote:
#30 Zardnaar Mar 08, 2015 10:55:33	To be fair the DM may not have been a dick. I thought the frightened condition made you run away on my 1st 5E game as well. They have fwatered it down form previous editions and I have seen players trip over 5E rules as well if they are the same effect as say 3.5/Pathfinder but are slightly different.     I have seen a player use his domain spells as bonus spells not just you can prepare them for free for example. He just assumed domains were the same as Pathfinder and he did not own a PHB.
#31 Tony_Vargas Mar 08, 2015 13:09:26	Farmer42 wrote:
#32 Vahnyu Mar 09, 2015 1:39:00	I do like the idea of HP being equal to Constitution Score + (HDs+CON modifier). That way, HPs can exist outside of Class Levels.
#33 Brock_Landers Mar 09, 2015 11:49:04	Vahnyu wrote:
#34 Vahnyu Mar 09, 2015 16:04:11	Brock_Landers wrote:
#35 ORC_Cricket Mar 09, 2015 19:49:52	We’ve removed content from this thread because of a violation of the Code of Conduct.   You can review the Code here: http://company.wizards.com/conduct   Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively.   Remember, a community is a joint effort of all those involved, and while we want intelligent meaningful and productive banter to ensue we also need it to be polite and considerate of others.     Thank you for your time and support as we continue to try and make a great community for everyone.
(Reply to #26) CCS	Vahnyu wrote:
#37 arnwolf666 Mar 09, 2015 22:55:32	Early editions gave a flat rate hp beginning at 10th or 11th level.  Maybe begin it at 6th level, +2 hp for Paladin, Fighters, Ranger's, and Barbarians, 1 for all other classes.