Greetings to all.
I've recently started trying out 5th edition. After 4th I was very much prejudgiced against it, but I have been pleasantly surprised. The system is genuinely good, and the few sessions I've had have been quite enjoyable.
However, I do have something to ask.
Will you take the red rulebook, or the blue rulebook? You choose the red book and you wake up in a fantasy world and believe whatever you want to believe. you choose the blue book, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Dungeons and Dragons 5th edition doesn't give much interraction with your character's growth, particularly for non-casters. From what I can see most post-creation choices are spells, archetype, and attribute boosts. Spells are the only one of those you choose most levels, and not every class even gets those. Outside of that the progression seems balanced, the classes each feel unique, and it is new player friendly. Combat flows fast and is easy enough to understand while still having the spells feel magical, something that 4th edition failed at rather dismally.
For a new player to RPGs I would recommend 5th edition Dungeons and Dragons as among the best mainstream games to pick up and go, while still being a great game for veteran players. It's rules light enough to flow nicely while detailed enough to prevent gms having to improvise everything.
On the other end of the spectrum...
GURPS is not new players friendly. It requires a lot of effort from the GM to create the game, far more than any incarnation of D&D. Combat tends to take a while and is VERY rules heavy. There is almost no fluff. However, in exchange for this the level of customization available to both GMs and players is beyond amazing. If you want to play something off the wall, either a unique setting or strange character, GURPS is peerless. That does include a sentient blueberry muffin, with no houserules.
So what is my point here?
Simple. D&D 5th is a great game, but I'm a bit disappointed by the lack of player imput in progression. I would hope to see some options in the future to allow this to change. Alternate class features, the option of swapping out class features for more proficiencies, that sort of thing. Also, check out GURPS, it's a good system. Not so good for combat, but for a non-combat game it's fantastic.
FuelDrop wrote:
FuelDrop wrote:
There's customiation options in the DMG.
How much is hard to tell, but it's on the table of contents.
Things like alternate class features don't normally show up til later. 2nd Edition had books like Player's Option (Combat & Tactics, Skills & Powers, Spells & Magic), Using those rules, I played a paladin who could cast spells starting at 4th (rather than the typical 9th). Yes 
.
3rd Edition had alternate class features in Player's Handbook II (and other books). Barbarians got berserker strength (in place of rage); Clerics got spontanteous domain casting (in place of spontaneous cure spells); Fighters got several in place of bonus feats at levels 6, 12, and 16: elusive attack, counter attack, and overpowering attack; and so on.
4th Edition had books like Arcane Power. Using a feat in that book, I played a wizard who had a fat, lazy cat named 'Bigby' as his familiar.
= = =
I'm confident that there will be plenty of options but, more options means more time.
There's a lotta stuff in the book already. They've included every race and class that ever appeared in a core PHB. The warlock appeared later in 3e but it shows up in the 5e PHB --because it was in PHB 1 for 4e.
Conversely, in 4e, they held back classes for later PHBs (like the bard, druid, and sorcerer; all of which first appeared in the PHB for 1e/2e or 3e).
One of the central features of 5E is that you can very easily build and modify a class. It's the DM's job, but he can work together with the player as much as he wants, of course.
Are you saying that in GURPS this same customization can be made by the player alone, plus it's super complicated?
What's the upside of that?
What I like about 5e is its simplicity. It'd be a lot easier (well, maybe not easier than 4e) to totally build a class/subclass concept just with 1-2 books than it was in previous editions.
Aside from a few things I want to see added ASAP (more warlock pacts, more claric domains, a shaman class/sub class of druid, psionics, more weapon-user options...) the PHB is pretty damn solid.
I do wish there were more customization options, however. Things like racial feats, racial powers that are added/can be added after 5th level, level one options, etc. I personally have been making up backgrounds by breaking apart listed ones, and I'm also seriously considering breaking up feats to make 3e/4e style feats that can be taken every other level (starting at level one).
I always want more. It's easy to take away, or not allow, some funky race/class/option. It's harder to make one up at the table that's balanced with what's RAW.
It is D&D, and it's not even a year old yet. There will be more optional books. D&D has always thrived on putting out many, many books. It's part of what defines D&D. Also, once the 3 core books are out, it's my belief that it will be reasonably easy to just create and add your own stuff with your players/DM as you see fit.
Siphersh wrote:
FuelDrop wrote:
lawrencehoy wrote:
If the only choices you have in a game session are the ones you get from leveling, then something has gone very wrong.
Noon wrote:
Considering things that are choices anyone can make in reference to choosing equipment, magic items, roleplaying, ad hoc actions, etc. it is a disappointment that martial classes are more limited in regards to flexibility of choice that never comes close to casters with spells.
Sure, GURPS gives you a lot of options. Only problem is... you have to play GURPS.
Personally I think too many mechanical optimization choices distract from storytelling. The two don't have to be mutually exclusive, but in practice I think they tend to get in each other's way. At least, in my experience. YMMV.
For a while I played a really simple MMO with my 8 year old nephew, "Pirates of the Caribbean". Browser based, primitive, kid-safe. But it had this one great feature: the only gear "slot" that had stats was your weapon. All your clothes (4 slots) were cosmetic only. Turns out it's really fun to play dress-up doll, especially in a pirate game. (I played a bald and very fat pirate in torn pants and a red and white striped tank top, with no shoes)
The point being, when you are freed up from the pressure to optimize your character mechanically you can spend that energy just having fun with the story. I like that.
5e is my favorite edition to date...by far...but even so it has too many choices. Multiclassing in particular is a mixed bag: it makes some character concepts possible, but it's a slippery slope toward minmaxing. Reading these forums reveals both mindsets: funny, creative concepts, and "omg look how much damage I can do by dipping here here and here".
How many of you, all other choices being equal, actually want a crossbow specialist as a character? If you were writing a fantasy novel, is that what your hero would be?
Just a few random thoughts of my own...
1- 5th Edition's core rules system rules is great
2- 5th Edition's classes and feats are mostly either boring or awkward in design, or in some cases both
3- There's a reason why GURPS sounds like you're vomiting when you say it... 