Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 BlackScarPaladin May 08, 2015 16:23:05	So, I've got a player who is a great help with world-building, and loves collaborating with me on worlds, but we have a point of contention that comes up whenever we work on a cosmology together.   Demons.  Specifically, the name.  We can agree that fiends are "bad", and equally so with devils, but he has difficulty with the etymological origins of the word "demon" (from daemon, messengers of the gods) and since he's a linguist, I'm not about to argue etymology with him.  I've been wracking my brain trying to come up with a name for creatures of primordial destruction and hate, but names are, unfortunately, my weakest point as a DM.   If anyone has some suggestions, I'd greatly appreciate the help.
#2 Kentus May 08, 2015 17:10:25	I often combine these here:   First a name generator, who makes a lot of strange names and here a table, how these names can be translated to. The name Truwaenahr is much more menacing, if you know, that it's translated into Mourning Warrior Clad in Gloom.   I know, there are some really awkward ones in the table, but it's more for inspiration and adaptation.
#3 Serpine May 08, 2015 18:46:15	You could always use the name tanar'ri that was used for demons during 2nd Edition. During that period they also introduced the names baatezu for devils, yogoloth for daemons, and gehreleth for demodands. While the names were created at the time to avoid offending people, there is something to be said for a name that sounds more like what they would call themselves.   One thing I'm wondering though is, since a lot of the reason you want to not use the term demons is because of your linguist friend who likes helping you with world-building, why don't you have him propose a few potential names using his specific talents in that area?
#4 CCS May 08, 2015 19:36:52	It's easy. "Demon" Is just what the/certain mortals call them. Doesn't matter if the term is accurate or not, it just stuck. Make their actual name is completely un-pronouncable.
#5 pukunui May 08, 2015 20:17:10	Serpine wrote:
#6 Devilbass May 08, 2015 20:37:23	Honestly, I plan on calling them tanar'ri and batezu. I have no issue with demon and devil, but I just think the 2e names are cooler. Sounds more interesting and unique than demon and devil.
#7 Azzy1974 May 08, 2015 20:44:14	BlackScarPaladin wrote:
#8 wildboar May 10, 2015 18:15:05	I'd suggest drawing on his strengths, here. If he's interested in etymology and world building then use both to explain the flavor of the terminology involved. For example, perhaps the culture which coined the term "demon" was fiercely monotheistic. They viewed other gods and spiritual beings as being messengers and harbingers of evil. The beings known as demons, in particular, were seeing as seeking to lead humanity astray and worshiping other deities. Maybe even themselves. Something along those lines. My point: come up with some cool fluff to explain the use of the term. You get your term. He gets his etymology. Everyone is happy!
#9 Grimcleaver May 11, 2015 16:30:59	I had a similar problem for a different reason. The 4e/5e split has created two different kinds of "demon" creature. There's the Tannar'i, the chaotic embodiments of evil from the Abyss, but also these strange corrupted elementals from rotten parts of the elemental planes. What do you call those? I decided to combine them with an interesting and seldom used kind of creature with a similar schtick--failed and corrupted portions of creation bent on befouling or destroying everything else. I called them Abominations.
#10 Grimcleaver May 11, 2015 16:34:02	For the OPs purposes though: how about calling demons abyssals, since they originate in the Infinite Layers of the Abyss?
(Reply to #7) Macv12	Azzy1974 wrote:
#12 MechaPilot May 11, 2015 17:25:31	I agree with the posters who've said to just use Baatezu and Tanar'ri.  If the player objects to those, then make him name them.
#13 Sword_of_Spirit May 11, 2015 19:30:39	The meaning of words change over time. Sure, demon comes from daemon, which didn't imply evil. But that was a long time ago. Demon has referred to evil beings for centuries. And yes, devil meant the same thing as demon right up until...oh, the 1970s, when D&D decided they were different for the purposes of the game.   That's how it works in D&D. I doesn't matter how Aristotle used the word--he isn't sitting at your table (I assume). To really annoy your friend, call yugoloths by their original name "daemon" as distinct from demon.   I love the Planescape names too. I take the angle that mortals on the material plane who know the difference between fiends call them devils, daemons, and demons, (and demondands for those who know of them). The fiends (and others out on the planes) refer to themselves as baatezu, yugoloths, tanar'ri, and gehreleths.
#14 BlackScarPaladin Sep 04, 2015 8:57:54	Hey everybody, sorry for the thread necro; I had some RL stuff come up that pulled me away from the forums (And D&D) for a while.  Thank you all for your advice on this topic! I do believe I'm rolling with Tanar'ri and Baatezu, with bumpkins calling them demons and devils and boogymen and whatever. I might have local spirits elsewhere that better match other mythologies' beasties, which is why I'm not using their names.  Thank you all again!
#15 cassi_brazuca Sep 04, 2015 15:45:58	Well, it depends on how much versatile this setting can be.   Contrary to most people, I hate the names Baatezu and Tanarar’ri and Yugoloths. If you are going to have big bad evil guys with blatant references to real world religion, you may as well give them the proper name. Notice that I’m a very strong Catholic, but honestly, I see no evil in having them in the game.   However, this case seems tricky. Anyone knows which Hebraic words were used for demons? I think you should talk and come to a solution, especially as he is a linguist. Perhaps you could actually change the setting and the creatures, if that makes both of you happy.
#16 Knight_Marshal Sep 04, 2015 18:49:35	Just use the names we use at our table. Democrat and Republican. . . . . . . . we can't agree which is which though!
#17 Brock_Landers Sep 05, 2015 1:14:41	Yeah, I go with the classic: Daemon, Demon, and Devil,  though some on the Planes (Planescape, Sigil, etc) call them Yugoloths, Tanar'ri, and Baatezu, respectively.
#18 Hebitsuikaza Sep 05, 2015 4:28:46	Knight_Marshal wrote: