Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Xeviat-DM Sep 13, 2015 15:42:47	Hey everyone. So, while submersing myself in all things ranger, I've been looking over the Fighter and Paladin in order to draw game balance comparisons. I've noticed a few commonalities that are really helping me work on my house rules, but I noticed something that I'm sure we all know, and I think I figured out a way to fix it.   The current fighter has little to do out of combat. Sure, their physical ability scores are often high, which helps them out in exploration. The champion gets a further bonus here. The battle master can size people up, which could be useful in social scenes. The EK has spells, and movement spells can be useful in exploration. Aside from their generally great out of combat healing ability (if they can rest multiple times, they can heal up to full without using their HD or spell slots).   So, while thinking about what the fighter could do out of combat, I came upon a notion that often exists but doesn't have anything mechanical to back it up. Privilege. The fighter is the everyman. Peasants, soldiers, merchants, and kings, they can understad the fighter. The fighter doesn't have supreme anger management problems. The fighter doesn't have to listen to a god when it doesn't suite them. The fighter doesn't turn into animals. They aren't some mysterious ascetic. They aren't one of them rangers. They aren't a thieving thief. They don't think they're holier than thou. They aren't some dangerous dragonblooded weirdo. They aren't cavorting with devils. And they aren't high and mighty locked away in a tower doing all that strange arcane stuff.   Fighters are understandable. People get them. People fear what they don't understand. They respect the fighter.   So what does this mean? Well, I think the fighter should get a bonus on charisma checks made to influence non-classed or fighter NPCs. Even if the fighter is a bad guy, with a terrible reputation, they're relatable. A fighter is a warrior, a rogue is a thug. A fighter worked hard for their talents, while a paladin or cleric was given them. You have to be super smart to be a wizard, but anyone can be a fighter (ignoring that having a high strength and moderate con, or high dex and moderate con, is statistically less likely than having a high Int; but seeing how few people are wizards, having a high int isn't all it takes).   I'm not sure the exact bonus I'm proposing. I think it should be a small scaling bonus, maybe +1 and then going up with proficiency (so it's always 1 behind proficiency), this way it can't be cherry picked like expertise or 1/2 proficiency or advantage could be.   Thoughts?
#2 tubadancross Sep 13, 2015 16:53:21	This seems like a very setting-specific thing rather than a class thing. Is a rogue a thug? The term 'rogue' would imply so but you can play a LG rogue as an honorable duelist just as a fighter can be a thug. In-world I don't think anyone would realistically call Fighter, Rogue, or Barbarian by their class name but by their background. The ability you propose sounds like a rogue or bard ability over fighter. Sorry, this is a bit all over the place. I'm very tired. tl;dr: Fighters are good at fighting.
#3 AaronOfBarbaria Sep 13, 2015 17:01:00	More fixing of problems that don't actually exist.
#4 Chaosmancer Sep 13, 2015 17:21:26	I like it as a roleplaying effect, not a mechanical one. Especially since a lot of personal reputation and biases play into it.   For example, the Sheriff of Nottingham shouldn't get that sort of bonus, because he's a bully and the taxman.   A scholar, who would be a non-classed npc, might feel comfortable talking to a Lore Bard or Wizard who shares their intellectual pursuits than a soldier who does not.   So, something to keep in mind during roleplay but not something that should be a class ability in my mind
(Reply to #2) Xeviat-DM	tubadancross wrote:
(Reply to #5) CCS	Xeviat-DM wrote:
#7 Elfcrusher Sep 13, 2015 20:08:28	Yeah, problem that doesn't exist in my book, too.   I've never noticed them (including while playing them) being bored outside of combat.  Ok, maybe slightly fewer opportunities to role dice than some other classes, but as much opportunity to roleplay as anybody.   Back to our regularly scheduled Ranger programming....
#8 BajiNaji Sep 13, 2015 22:42:48	This is partly why other systems, like Burning Wheel, use intent and fictional positioning to determine stat appropriate rolls.
#9 Macv12 Sep 14, 2015 5:46:25	If one wanted to homebrew a system for social interactions with the mechanical depth of combat, I could see a place for this kind of thing. Like a "debate" system, or a codification of which characters have what kind of info and how to get it from them. Each class or character might get/pick different kinds of bonuses or specialization a for it. But you'd probably be better off finding a system that already focuses on kind of thing, or even playing two games in parallel (5e for combat, other system for social).   In other words I don't think the fighter needs a specific social bonus in 5e's current paradigm, but there's room to create a new branch of 5e with new dimensions for all the classes.
#10 Tempest_Stormwind Sep 14, 2015 9:09:25	I don't see this as part of a class, especially because fighters can take superhuman punishment and fight with unnatural speed before they're out of the apprentice levels.   I see this as part of the background. They even have Folk Hero there for a reason. Its ability more or less is the same as what Xeviat's discussing, just not expressed the same way.   (Seriously, 5e allows for a degree of freedom in backgrounds to spare classes from having plot-writing abilities, like this one. I concur the fighter may overspecialize in the Combat pillar (especially the Battle Master), but don't think you need to be ham-fisted in adjusting that.) Macv12 wrote:
(Reply to #10) Macv12	Tempest_Stormwind wrote:
#12 Tempest_Stormwind Sep 14, 2015 20:40:10	...I've not played Romance of the Three Kingdoms, but I have played a few that resolve combat and noncombat challenges using the same set of mechanics (i.e. the equivalent of "deplete the HP" applies whether you're picking a lock, convincing the king to act, or punching a guy in the face), so while there may be dedicated "combat" and "noncombat" classes, there's no such thing as a character who can't contribute outside their specialty. Usually they default to less crunch than you're suggesting (I like the idea of map mechanics applied to the abstract as well as the battlefield), but in at least one case that simplicity is entirely deliberate (Legends of Wulin, for reasons which will be obvious upon reading that).
#13 Macv12 Sep 15, 2015 5:49:52	That looks great...would totally get if free. Unfortunately I'm unlikely to get to play it soon, but thanks for the direction.