Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Elfcrusher Nov 06, 2014 9:14:38	One thing that I keep missing is 'crafting'.  Sure, players can make regular items from the equipment pages during downtime, but of course what I really mean is magic items.  I wanted to create a system with the following characteristics: 1) Not a new class, but a template that is used on existing classes 2) Truly optional, which means there has to be a cost to it (otherwise its like WoW professions: you are gimping your character if you don't do it.) 3) Combines downtime and adventuring.   Here's the outline of my proposal.  If people like it (and want to contribute) maybe I'll flesh it out more fully.   1) Crafting Skill The basic idea is that Craft skills become a new, alternate use for Ability Score Increases (or Feats).  There are a variety of crafting skills, such as Blacksmithing, Gemcutting and Finesmithing (jewelry), Alchemy, Weaving, etc.  Instead of taking a score increase or feat, you can take one of these skills...but only if you have a relevant skill from your background.  (Which in most cases would mean guild artisan, so perhaps some tweaked Backgrounds would be desireable.)  That gives you "level 1" in the skill.  Then, you can spend future Feats to increase your skill.  I.e., you could spend 3 feats to get Blacksmithing 3.  Yes, that's a big price to pay...but we're talking about making magic items.   2) Recipes To learn how to make a specific magic item, you need to find the recipe for it. This could be done through adventuring, or perhaps through expensive research.  And of course all sorts of exotic materials will be required, which will probably require even more adventuring.   3) Teamwork In many cases the crafting of magical items will depend on multiple skills, so teamwork will be required.  A weapon might need some gems to be inset, for example. At the very least, many magic items will require 1 or more spells to be cast on them.  Creating magic items should be a team effort.   4) Difficulty Each recipe includes a difficulty rating that determines both the minimum skill required, as well as the likelihood of success.  Skill higher than the minimum required increases the chance of success, and many recipes may have options that also affect the outcome.  E.g., if you need a dragon scale the age of the dragon from which is taken might effect the chance of success.  The roll isn't made until the very end, and on a failure the crafter must start over: all materials are lost. (Smart crafters will gather extras...)   5) Time Crafting is a downtime activity, and each recipe includes the number of days required, as well as requirements for contiguous days.  (I.e., "30 days total, 20 of which must be consecutive").  There may be lifestyle requirements as well, as crafting is exhausting work that can't be done on bread and water while living in a flophouse.     Thoughts?   Personally, if this were an official supplement book it would be the first one that I would buy.
#2 Elfcrusher Nov 06, 2014 9:19:28	Addendum: my first thought is that maybe each point of Crafting also has a +1 in a relevent stat.  That way it's not a total sacrifice to level it up.  So blacksmithing might be +1 Strength or Con, Finesmithing +1 Dex, etc.  You could still get a 20 in your prime stat while level up Crafting to 5 or 6.
#3 bawylie Nov 06, 2014 10:12:30	I feel like I want to start with a legendary smith adventure. You know the type. The once incredible master of the art is now an unmotivated and depressed drunkard. Too much violence, too much murder, feels responsible for all of it.    Then we overcome those deficiencies and get him back to work. And he provides us the resource for creating the things we want. But we have to supply materials. So now we sort of world-build & story build instead of relying on mechanical/class inventions.    all in all, I believe what we want is greater access to magic items. The ability to request what we want and produce it. I feel more comfortable handling that in-universe than in-rules. In-rules means I have to leave my hand off that particular lever, which has its consequences. In-universe gives me greater control over the process, meaning it's less likely to catch me unawares and I can still give them what they want.
#4 bawylie Nov 06, 2014 10:14:48	Philosophically, I don't like dipping into the well of mechanics or process-sim when I want something in my world. I don't need game rules to cover minutiae such as how many days crafting a magic items takes. The relevent question (to me) is how much work, what have we overcome, to achieve our goals?
#5 Elfcrusher Nov 06, 2014 10:34:13	Hmm.  I agree with everything you're saying.  (And I love your idea for the smithing adventure.)  But...it's also fun to make things, including gathering rare materials and that breathless moment where you find out whether it's all wasted or not.  My motivation isn't really "more magic items", although perhaps "specific magic items" might be part of it.  I personally, in real life, get great pleasure out of making something fine, perhaps finer than what you can buy in most stores, and using it.  In another game ("The One Ring") I'm playing a character with smithing skills and although it's pure fluff I like 'knowing' that he made his own sword.   Also, I hate (hate hate hate hate hate) the idea of "magic shoppes", and yet it feels insufficient to have the only source of magic items be what you randomly find while adventuring.  Too close to WoW and Random Boss Loot, maybe.  I suppose the DM could have powerful NPCs give the heroes gifts, as rewards or what-have-you, but I'd like it to be somewhat in the player's control.   But, as you point out, that doesn't have to mean crafting.  It could mean convincing/assisting those who have the ability to make it for you.  And, if your character happens to have some of the relevant skills, that assistance could be at the level of crafting, making the "I made it" aspect possible.   Good thoughts.
#6 bawylie Nov 06, 2014 11:00:53	Sure. These items could well be tailored to be specifically attuned to the wielded. Maybe they won't even be truly "finished" until bloodied in battle, even.    Or otherwise put to some test.
#7 Satyrn Nov 06, 2014 11:09:50	The magic shop in the game I'm running is actually a stall in a bar that one of the PCs set up to sell his loot because I'd been delaying placing any stores at all in the area the PCs are adventuring. I told the players that other adventurers will come by to offload their own loot, and it'll maybe just happen to be what's on the players wishlist. So now i never have to put in a store as DM. Except for story reasons, of course.
#8 iserith Nov 06, 2014 11:14:23	bawylie wrote:
#9 bawylie Nov 06, 2014 11:32:41	Sure the old concept of an adventure being a venture - for material gain
#10 FFSAA Nov 06, 2014 12:29:19	I'd like to see a good crafting system, the few I've seen have been a bit fiddly, but we have apps now to handle fiddly so maybe that wouldn't be too bad.