Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Einlanzer Dec 14, 2014 9:09:42	Has anyone homebrewed any alternatives to the 4th attack that fighters get at level 20? It admittedly bugs me a bit that they get twice the number of attacks that any other class does. Not from a balance perspective really, because I'm sure it's reasonably well balanced, just from a thematic one.  I'd prefer if it capped at 3 and they got something else good at 20th.
#2 GladiusLegis Dec 14, 2014 9:46:21	A couple of alternatives that come to mind:   When you reduce the target to 20 hit points or less with an attack, its hit points are automatically reduced to 0. (Something like this was in an earlier playtest, actually.) When you roll a natural 20 on an attack, the enemy must make a CON save equal to 8 + STR or DEX mod + proficiency bonus, or be reduced to 0 hit points. (Basically a scaled-down Vorpal effect.)
#3 FFSAA Dec 14, 2014 20:51:58	It's not twice as many attacks.  Swift Quiver rangers get 4 attacks, Barbarians get 3, Monks flurry for 4 attacks at level 5.
#4 Einlanzer Dec 15, 2014 17:48:49	GladiusLegis wrote:
#5 Daydreamer80 Dec 15, 2014 18:44:42	It is a bit imbalanced.   I play by raw, but if i didnt i would make the third and fourth attack take disadvantage.   Honestly that would be reasonble, still easy to hit at those levels just miss  a tad more.
#6 Einlanzer Dec 15, 2014 19:15:51	Daydreamer80 wrote:
#7 mellored Dec 15, 2014 21:00:15	Considering wizards get wish, it's not imbalanced. My issue with it is the time it takes to roll. I would simply say you get Str+Dex damage on weapon attacks.
#8 GladiusLegis Dec 15, 2014 22:52:53	Also Fighters are pretty much literally all combat, and more offensive than defensive at that. They're not as durable as a Barbarian, nor do they throw around ridiculous full-party protections and full-party combat buffs like the Paladin. The Fighter needs that extra offense to have some purpose as a class on the whole.
#9 Lawolf Dec 15, 2014 22:59:21	Honestly. the level 20 fighter isn't that great of a level 20 feature.   Warlocks get their 4th attack at level 17, but also get all day long advantage to all attack rolls, ability checks, and saving throws at that level as well (foresight).    At level 20, druids gain infinite HP (ok they get a 130 HP buffer every round as a bonus action).    At level 20, barbarians get unlimited rages, +2 AC, +2 attack, +2 damage, +2 to Str and Con saves, and 40 bonus HP.   Wizards don't get a good level 20 feature, but their level 18 feature is amazing (two at-will spells of level 2 or lower). Shield is permanent +5 AC for example.   If you really don't want the 4th attack, a good feature at level 20 would be advantage to attack rolls and saving throws. It would reduce the power of the fighter offensively, but it does provide a defensive boost that the fighter is very much in need of.
#10 Sorxores Dec 16, 2014 10:58:33	Sorcerer got the arguably the weakest lvl 20 ability (with the bard and monk not far behind (I usually do more ccombat then rest in a normal adventuring day) regain 4 SP during a shor trest (4SP represent a spell lvl 3 OR 2 quicken spell OR 1 twinned 4th level spell) and a pretty weak lvl 18 ability as well (dragonic presence (charm/frighten)  or bombardement for wild magic.   The sorcerer cap stone should be something sorcerer get at level 2 when they obtain Sorcery point (regain your level divided by 3 (minimum1) so that way they would benefit somehow from a short rest, not as much as a wizard (who at level 2 can recover a spell lvl 1, while 1 SP do not allowed you to recover a spell lvl 1) but give the sorcerer a reason to do a short rest and give him some versatility he could regain an extra spell or metamagic his remaining spells. Then for capstone we could get something nice, Considering the fighter 4th attack, the barbarian +4 Strenght and Constitution and the possibility to break the stat limit to 24, The cleric 100% chance to summon his god favor once per week,the druid unlimite wild shape and able to cast metarial component spell in beast form.... The sorcerer could receive something nice like can choose ONE metamagic and he can add it for free on all his spell (except Twinned the cost would be reduce by up to 3(minimum 0))
#11 dragonfather Dec 16, 2014 14:50:56	Sorcerer 's capstone can be pretty decent if you play it right. The main thing people forget is that they can create spell slots with their spell points, so when you start the day and proceed to sit on your butt for the first 6 hours of the day traveling, you could be generating 24 sp worth of spell slots while keeping your sp pool topped off. You can always reconvert the spell slots back into sp, level 5 slots are the most efficient at 5 back for 7 spent. There's 24 hours in a day and you probably only spend maybe 3 of them fighting and 8 sleeping. That leaves you 17 hours to generate spell points over the day. Bonus at high levels if you can get polymorphed by the bard or wizard into something that doesn't need to sleep, or you are an elf that only needs 4 hours of trance and can skip the 8 hour long rest without dying of deprivation. You can just keep building up lower level slots as long as you don't need to regain your high level slots. You can become a veritable spell slinging metamagic powerhouse. Granted, a sorcerer could just take three warlock levels at any point and get the same effect (convert two level 2 spells into 4 spell points). So it's not the greatest capstone ever, but don't discount it's potential for abuse like any other capstone. As for the monk capstone.... yeah, it's pretty bad. Encouraging monks to dump their last few ki points if they have less than 4 just so they can go back up to 4 at the start of the next fight is dumb. You will pretty much always do better taking a multiclass level than bothering with the capstone.
#12 mellored Dec 16, 2014 15:03:42	Monk and bard are worse then sorcerer. But casters still get a level 7 slot, which is far from nothing. Though they can get that multiclassing as well.
(Reply to #8) Daydreamer80	GladiusLegis wrote:
#14 Lawolf Dec 16, 2014 15:53:29	Daydreamer80 wrote:
#15 Einlanzer Dec 16, 2014 19:44:34	How does this sound? Battle Hardened - Gain +1 to AC, +1 to all attack rolls and +3 to all damage rolls from weapon attacks. Once per turn, you can impose disadvantage on any attack roll targeting your AC, Strength, Dex, or Con.
(Reply to #15) FFSAA	Einlanzer wrote:
#17 Ramulf Dec 16, 2014 21:16:07	[quote="Lawolf"] Honestly. the level 20 fighter isn't that great of a level 20 feature.   Warlocks get their 4th attack at level 17, but also get all day long advantage to all attack rolls, ability checks, and saving throws at that level as well (foresight).    How does a warlock get 4 attacks. Thirsting blade only grants 2.
(Reply to #17) GladiusLegis	Ramulf wrote: