It seems like a lot of fantasy novels with a "rogue" like character portray them as assassins and hired killers. Are there any D&D or other novels that actually have a main character that is an actual D&D rogue, ie smart, resourceful, cunning, charismatic, stealthy, a thief who can fight, but not just a hitman? I don't want to read another assassin book.
I know he wrote those books, but I've heard mixed things about how good they actually are.
There are many great fantasy novels about rogues. Here are two of my favorites:
The Cugel the Clever Novels, by Jack Vance (Eyes of the Overworld, Cugel's Saga). These are collected with the wonderful stories, and the novel Rhialto the Marvelous (mostly about Wizards) in 'Tales of the Dying Earth'. Cugel is a lying, cheating, amoral, selfish, greedy, con artist, thug, liar, and thief, who is described as, "a man of many capabilities, with a disposition at once flexible and pertinacious. He was long of leg, deft of hand, light of finger, soft of tongue ... His darting eye, long inquisitive nose and droll mouth gave his somewhat lean and bony face an expression of vivacity, candor, and affability. He had known many vicissitudes, gaining therefrom a suppleness, a fine discretion, a mastery of both bravado and stealth."
The Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser stories, by Fritz Lieber. A swashbuckling pair of rogues loose in the greatest city in the world.
The books above had a huge influence on D&D. Vancing magic, use magic device skill, thieves guilds, etc..
Other great rogue reading:
'Theives World', anthology edited by Robert Aspin. Lots of theives.
'Rogues', anthology edited by George R.R. Martin. Tales of rogues by current writers.
I have heard the 'The Lies of Locke Lamora' by Scott Lynch is good, but haven't had a chance to read it yet. It is definitely filled with rogues.
The Gentleman Bastards trilogy, of which The Lies of Locke Lamora is first, is the greatest rogue series I've ever seen. It's basically Ocean's Eleven set in a fantasy universe.
demon_idol wrote:
For D&D novels there is King Pinch and it is set in FR. It has probably been out of print for years though.
The Fritz Leiber stories are great old school Fantasy. I'm a big fan (Grey Mouser...all the way).
When I was a teen and young adult, I liked reading Joel Rosenberg's Guardian of the Flames novels. They have some rogues in them.
Recently I've been reading Patrick Rothfuss. His novels (at least the 1st two...I haven't read the one that just was published) are told by a character who is kind of a Jack-of-All-Trades (Bard, Rogue, Warrior). I love these.
Bilbo Baggins of The Hobbit is a rogue. (Though you've probably read it already.)
Skif in Take a Thief (Mercedes Lackey) is a thief, though he does transition closer to assassin in other books that feature him.
Silk in The Belgariad/The Mallorean (David Eddings) is a rogue, possibly with some dips into bard.
JS20 wrote:
It is not fantasy, but I think a great example of a non-assassin rogue is Vila from Blake's Seven.
James Bond 
Diffan wrote:
Diffan wrote:
Some great suggestions here. I read the Name of the Wind by Rothfuss a few months ago and liked it well enough, but I haven't read the second one yet. Do any of these characters have a little magic going on?
I know Kvothe does, but he is more bardic than rogue. I picked up the first Gray Mouser collection and will start on that tonight. Any other sort of magical rogues out there?
JS20 wrote:
JS20 wrote:
FFSAA wrote:
Shasarak wrote:
JS20 wrote:
Although not D&D or fantasy, the Scifi novels the Stainless Steel Rat have a very roguelike character as the main protagonist. Of course, it might also depend on your definition of "rogue"; I'm thinking of it as a character that makes use of skill and cunning/intellect moreso than anything else.
Any novel with Tasselhoff Burrfoot (or other Kender) is a fun read. The kender (Dragonlance halfling) are natural thieves, and Tasselhoff of Krynn is the most famous of them.
And speaking of hobbits, Bilbo was not the only rogue; Pippin and Merry (and possibly Frodo) were also rogues. (Sam I would classify as a fighter.)
The main character in Knight of the Crown (Dragonlance, Knights of Solamnia series) starts of as a typical thief.
Anton Marivaldi of 'The Reaver' (Sundering series) is a non-assassin rogue.
Regis of the Companions (R.A. Salvatore) is a thief.
Not D&D, but Han Solo is a rogue (okay, scoundrel, but really, what's the difference here.) Plus there's a title called Rogue's Gallery and has some "scoundrels" who are not assassins.
Rogues Compilation is filled with Rogue Short Stories.
There's always the X-men. Pretty sure Rogue isn't usually an assassin.
Since Silk, from Eddings' books, is a master hand-to-hand combatant, I think I would refer to him as an "assassin". I'm not sure what I'd describe him as in D&D 5E. Fighter? Valour Bard? Fighter/Rogue?
James Bond is a great example. I used him as an example of a good assassin when arguing against "all assassins must be evil" in AD&D.
Thinking about David & Leigh Eddings' works, it makes me wonder, what actually characterises a Rogue in D&D 5E?
In earlier versions, Rogues/Thieves were the only lock openers and trap disarmers and pocket pickers, so their role was pretty well-defined. In D&D 5E a Rogue is no better or worse at that stuff than any other class. Anyone can climb a wall or pick a pocket or disarm a trap. A Bard is probably the best at it, rather than a Roguye. It seems that the only thing that really distinguishes a Rogue from a Fighter is that the Rogue is a secondary attacker - they work best when someone else has the primary attention of their target.
Given that, I wouldn't at all describe Conan as a D&D 5E rogue. In all of his fights he was the one centrestage, doing all the work.
In short, D&D 5E rogues are completely different from AD&D 1/2 thieves (which is what I am used to).
Silk would be a thief, not an assassin. Velvet is an assassin. Sure, Silk can moonlight. But by his own admission he compulsively steals, cheats, and lies. His most notable "kill" was an ACCIDENT as a result of scuffling with some guards. I'd go straight rogue with him. Barak would be a fighter/druid MC OR a werebear fighter. Hettar a ranger. Belgarath would be a sorcerer/rogue MC. Beldin would be a wizard. Polgara would be straight sorcerer. Durnik is a bit murkier. I'd go with fighter who picked up ritual casting. Garion is a whole mess of things, but probably a sorcerer/fighter MC. Ce'nedra is a dryad bard. Mandorallen and Leldorin are both fighters, strength and dex, respectively. Relg is a fighter with the acolyte background who talked his DM into giving him drow blindsight and its drawback.
Farmer42 wrote:
Orethalion wrote:
Farmer42 wrote:
I always remember Silk as being more Rogue then Assassin.
Shasarak wrote:
FFSAA wrote:
Rhenny wrote:
ankiyavon wrote:
FFSAA wrote:
ankiyavon wrote:
Orethalion wrote:
FFSAA wrote:
Shasarak wrote:
Orethalion wrote:
Shasarak wrote:
Farmer42 wrote:
There are a couple that come to mind. Daryth from the Moonshae Trilogy by Douglas Niles, although not a main character and his 1st Edition stats list him as a Thief, he is very much a rogue.
There is also Regis,a halfling. He is features in most of R.A. Salvatore's books featuring Dizzt Do'Urden. He is a rogue.
I know there are a few more FR novels that have an ensemble of rogue and swashbuckler characters, I am just hard pressed to think of titles.
Greenstone.Walker wrote:
You're thinking of Issus, Zard. And yeah, killing people doesn't make you an assassin. Sneaking around to occasionally kill people doesn't even make you an assassin. Focusing your skillset to specifically sneak around and kill people does make you an assassin. And that's not what Silk does. While he enjoys fighting, he usually tries to avoid any kind of conflict or killing. To the point that he criticizes bloodthirst in his companions. So while he may be able to sneak around and assassinate people, it isn't who he is or what he does except for that once scene where he's royally pissed.
Farmer42 wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
Orethalion wrote:
Farmer42 wrote:
Rogues get Move Silently, Hide in Shadows and Backstab, right? Using your abilities to sneak in and gank someone does not mean you are an Assassin - especially if you are doing it for free!
Someone like Erevis Cale (who used to be an Assassin) and Drasek Riven (who is an Assassin) are much better examples of Assassins then Silk.
Orethalion wrote:
Shasarak wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
Orethalion wrote:
...and any character in a novel that has ever disarmed someone in a fight must be a battlemaster.
...and if they've evered tracked someone they had ranger levels.
...and, of course, if anyone has ever given a rousing speech they were clearly a bard.
Zardnaar wrote:
Orethalion wrote:
Orethalion wrote:
ankiyavon wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
Orethalion wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
Silk had all the skillsets you'd expect of a thief, but he also had superb combat training a thief doesn't need but you'd expect of a ninja. He was in fact a spy which is neither a thief nor assassin, but he was certainly trained to do both.
FFSAA wrote:
FFSAA wrote:
Dare I say it: the TV series "White Collar"
Okay, I know I might take some crap for this because it's not fantasy, but I have to offer this one up: James Bond.
Spies practically personify the skill-monkey, kill-from-stealth archetype of the modern world, and James Bond often relies on the various gadgets that Q gives him. James Bond (at least in the film, as I've never read any of the books) is basically a rogue with "magic" items in a modern setting.
Also, as a DM, you can totally steal James Bond plots for your adventures. One time I wasn't feeling terribly inspired to write an adventure and my turn to DM was coming up that week, so I made the villain a chubby gold-loving alchemist who wanted to set off an alchemical bomb in the treasury of the local lord that would turn all of that lord's gold into lead. I even gave him an evil dwarf right-hand man with an exotic bladed ranged weapon that was also his hat.
Zardnaar wrote:
FFSAA wrote:
Zardnaar wrote: