This is my very favorite selection of mundane armor types of any edition of Dungeons & Dragons.
It's not 100% perfect (hide armor is still included? Really?), but I heartily approve of the multiple types of plate armor available as both medium and heavy armors, and I like that the mail shirt made it in.
Well done, Mearls and company! 
It's ok. It covers most of armor anyway. I like how they scale. Light-max 17,Med-max 17,Heavy-max 18.
But i'm kind of divided on my feelings about medium armors. Best you can get is 17 ac. So that means you have dex 14. If you go light and nible,you are better of with light armor and pumping your dex (its you primary attack,damage and defense stat anyway). If you want to go strength,you dump dex and pump str+con and go heavy armor (no dex mod,but you have good ac,lot of hp and nice damage with melee weapons). Only reason to take medium,in my opinion at least,is if you want to go middle road. You spread your stats so you have decent str,dex and con,pick up medium armor and you are eaqually good using ranged and melee weapons,making you jack of all trades (and master of none).
WhiteHarness wrote:
I think the spellcasters will be very happy about the lack of spell failure, only needing to have proficency with an armor type to not have spellcastig issues.
Kalafax wrote:
Haytam wrote:
Polaris wrote:
Shiroiken wrote:
- Certain rolled-stat characters may find that Medium armor is best
- Classes like (potentially) Bard/Cleric Domains/Hybrid-style characters who might choose to use STR-based weaponry
Let's take a look at the classes in the Basic Set. Of them only ONE grants medium armor without granting heavy (the Cleric) and even here, the Cleric has the option of getting Heavy armor as a class feature at level one by choosing the appropriate domain (life gets it and when published I'd be stunned if war didn't as well).
What that means in the case of the cleric is you can CHOOSE up front to be either a lightly armored character or a heavy armored character which in the long run doesn't leave much for medium armor.
In the case of the fighter, in the long run it's either light armor or heavy armor depending on how you want to manage your Dex (and Str).
In the case of the Rogue, it's obviously going to be light armor all the way (it would have been nice to have the option to start in medium but that was taken out post playtest). I will also note that any self-respecting rogue is NOT going to start out in leather. Leather is horrid. They'll start out in Studded Leather if it's at all possible.
Then comes the Wizard who is unarmored (and thus for most this convo is irrelevant to them). The only relevant wizard for this convo is the Mtn Dwarf Wizard, but if the Heavy Armor Feat exists and it's anything like it was in the playtest, then I expect most Mtn Dwarf wizards will gravitate to it. If not, then yes.....we have found ONE niche for medium armor. Mtn Dwarf wizards (and presumably Druids) will want it.
-Polaris
If you don't have a 20 in dex, then Half-Plate is better than studded leather. Even if you do have a 20 in dex, half plate is just as good as stuffed leather if you don't care about stealth. I think they struck a pretty good balance. Medium Armour has its place. After all, ability score bumps aren't free, nor are feats. There are many conceivable situations in which a suit of medium armour could prove useful, even to a character of reasonably high level.
Bardic_Dave wrote:
Polaris wrote:
spelley wrote:
The problem is heavy armor also requires a Str to not be penalized for wearing it. If I was a starting bard I'd go medium armor/finesse weapons, Dex 14 and focus on my caster stats. If there's a heavy armor feat that'd require burning a feat vs advancing another stat for 1 more point of AC and moving slower if I don't pump Str. And Str is a crap save stat.
For a non life Cleric I can Str/Wis/Con and work towards heavy armor using big weapons or go Dex/Wis/Con, be 1 point lower in AC, have better Dex saves and skip the heavy armor feat for another +2 into Con(more HP and better saves). Only downside for cleric is the lack of a d6 finesse simple weapon. Some domains may open those up though. Oddly this build means we'd probably see dagger clerics.
On top of that you then have to look at the party makup. Do you really want to compete with the rogue/fighters for light/heavy armor or have magic medium armor drops be all to yourself? The medium armor Dex cleric could feat into martial weapons or stick with the shortbow/crossbow and just dual wield magical dagger pickups that the rest of the party scoffs at.
I just think the game is a lot more flexible than prior editions.
Dracones wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in 3.x the 10ft movement cost was going from chain shirt(+4 AC) to full plate(+9 AC). Spending 33% of your movement for 25% more AC is pretty good, but in 5e we're talking about spending 33% of your movement for 5% more AC. That's a big difference.
So if you're not a mainline Str class, a dwarf or wanting to get your Str up to 15(which a lot of classes still will) it's probably not a good idea to use heavy armor.
For non main Dex classes I really doubt you're going to see them get 2 stats to 20 by max level(their main stat and Dex). Clerics get 5 ability advances. You're going to want to max your man stat and then take some feats. This is really going to apply to any class that gets medium, doesn't mainline Dex but favors it over going Str. I just don't see them switching out of medium armor even at max level.
Dracones wrote:
What about DEX saves? It seems like there are a lot of 'em, and the idea that high AC and high hps make a heavy armor high STR/CON (but crap DEX) character durrable has to ignore that rather glaring vulnerability.
Tony_Vargas wrote:
The only thing a lazor cleric needs dex for is saving throws. He is going to use his wis for spell attacks. Everyone is going to need dex for saving throws or they are going to need all that extra healing 5th is throwing around. Dex saves are one of the most common( it or wis saves are top dog) and that pregenb fighter looks like he is going to have a hard time surviving a blaster caster.
Karnos wrote:
masterfat78 wrote:
It may come down to feats in the PHB. If they're not very good then boosting a secondary stat to 20 will probably be the way to go and Dex will be a good choice there. OTOH if there are some really nice feats then I can see picking those up and staying in medium armor.
Hopefully feats are balanced so both options are viable.
Reasons to wear Light Armors:
- you don't have proficiency in Medium or Heavy Armor
- you have a good Dexterity
- you want to avoid speed penalties
- you want to avoid Stealth penalties
- you cannot afford heavier armor
Reasons to wear Medium Armors:
- you don't have proficiency in Heavy Armor
- your Dex isn't super high to make Lighter Armor more attractive
- you don't want Disadvantage on Stealth checks
- your Strength isn't high enough to negate the movement penalty
- you cannot afford heavier armor
Reasons to wear Heavy Armors:
- you have a good Str score to overcome the movement penalty
- you don't have a good Dex
- you don't care if you have terrible Stealth skills
- you don't care if you have a reduced move speed
- you want the highest possible AC
There are plenty of reasons to chose any particular armor.
Honestly, my only real problem with the armor list is some of the names. Otherwise I think it's fine. Will you see fewer characters wearing Medium armor at high levels? Maybe. But you'll also see fewer characters wearing chainmail. Well, unless it's some kind of mithril. And a +2 breastplate will always be better than ordinary studded leather, no matter what your Dex is.
Polaris wrote:
Dexterity applies to your Initiative and 5E has very quick and deadly combats (and thus you always want to go first), Dexterity applies to your to-hit and damage with Ranged and Finesse weapons, it is one of the most commonly targeted Attributes for Saving Throws, and light doesn't impose any penalties on movement or Stealth. For these reasons I think Light Armor + 20 Dex is the clear winner, assuming you can get 20 Dex, 20 in your primary attribute (assuming that it's not already Dex), and if possible 20 in Con (because hit points are the ultimate defense at high levels).
The benefit to being Strength based and using heavy armor is +1 AC and maybe +3ish average damage on your attacks. (2d6 from greatsword as opposed to rapier, assuming that you're not using your bonus action for two weapon fighting). You might also be able to get a high AC sooner then a Dex based character, since fullplate only requires 15 Strength (though you're unlikely to be able to afford at 1st/2nd level unless you stumble upon a lot of gold).
The only benefit of medium armor is that it still provides you with 17 AC if your Attributes suck and you're forced to slum it with 14 Dex. But there's no reason to actively choose to build a character that uses medium armor if you have the resources to do otherwise.
So it all comes down to what Attribute generation method your party uses. If it's 4d6 drop the lowest and you roll lucky, light armor is the way to go. If you're using point buy, I could see a good argument for medium armor. I'm currently not seeing any compelling reason to be Str based with heavy armor.
If you want to go str+heavy,best way to aproach it is to slap heavy armor,take shield and fighting style that gives you +1 ac in armor. You sacrifice damage output,but you have respectable ac.
Full plate 18+shield 2 + 1 fs=21. You might star with chainmail so you get 19 at the start and you upgrade to full plate at what,lv 4-5? Congrats,you are meat shield. Also,you can go hill dwarf,drop dex and pump str&con so you have tons of hp. You can outlive most of the things in melee,but your stoping power is at best 1d8+4/5. Also,since no magic items are presumed,no feates are presumed and going by basic alone,by the lv 8 you will as a dwarf fighter max out str and con and have enough stat increases left to put in dexterity for saves. Just my 2c
Are the encumbrance rules from page 60 missing from this debate? I just converted a dwarf with Str17 from the playtest. He wears studded leather and all it took was a few spare weapons, a miner's pick, a shield, some standard equipment and a climbers kit to make him encumbered. Someone with a low strength is really going to struggle with plate mail. I'll need to convert a few more characters to see how it plays out but even somene with Str15 is going to be carrying very little equipment (10lbs) to avoid suffering move 20'. i realise that they are optional but perhaps if people are unhappy with the way tsome armours seem inferior should give them a test and see how they play out. Maybe ring mail is of some use to a low strength, low dex cleric?
pauln6 wrote:
Polaris wrote:
I never assume everything on the weapons/armor list is even available...Figure your first adventure is based in and around a small farming or mining town (like in the starter set) It makes no sense for any smith or merchant there to have or sell half plate, full plate, anything mithril, silvered, etc. Or even a greatsword, great axe, etc.
When I DM I don't let PC's just buy whatever is in the book, unless the campaign starts in a city, the PC's are all from a city, or (for some reason) they inherit everything they have (noble background, soldier background...)
With a low magic item campaign that's also FR/LotR/GoT generic medival (which I want to try before getting crazy with Dark Sun or Plane Scape) you need something cool to get as you make your way up to level 4-5...Before you start getting magic stuff. No one should start in plate, for example, without a damn good reason. Even if they have the stats/proficiencies for it.
On the other end of it, I will allow magic weapons and armor to be purchased. But only in large cities, through special organizations, or creepy magical merchant caravans that show up in a midnight fog; and then are gone without a trace by dawn.
PS: Anything +1 with no other properties isn't 'magic' by my definition. It's just what used to be called masterwork. ie: exotic materials and/or craftsmanship. Like a serrated dagger that's +1 to damage, but not +1 to hit. Or anything mithril, monster hide, darkwood, adamantine, silvered, or cold iron.
pauln6 wrote:
Just like to put in how wrong the weight of armor seems. I know any time someone says this it turns into an argusment on how much real armor weighs(which I know nothing about personally, although I could debate about wether dragonscale or the armor the military use is better). Anyway the seem really high for the heavy armors.
I guess I don't see why medium armor exists as a category. It just doesn't add any flavor that a simplier, light/heavy only system wouldn't have.
Polaris wrote:
Shiroiken wrote:
Shiroiken wrote:
Polaris wrote:
I only agree with Polaris up to a point. He's not being totally consistent in that he was claiming that medium armour was rubbish and there was no reason to keep it beyond low levels. The encumbrance rules give PCs a reason. Whether that's a 'problem' that needed fixing may be a matter of opinion but it seems to be a side effect .
As long as the mithral shirt is just a less heavy version of a chain shirt I think light armour should be ok. Few characters are going to end up with Dex20 in my campaign. I'm likely to make feats compulsory and and even if I didn't I would not allow someone to pump a single stat by +2. I may possibly allow a +1 to a single stat occasionally for free on top of the feats to keep it interesting. I'm also considering adopting the houserule that saves should be spread across all six abilities so that pumping just one of the good ones doesn't have such a major effect.
Light armour can lead to a decent armour class but it is dependent on build. My experience is that most players have a build in mind that they think is cool not one that crunches numbers to give them the best of everything. The light armour builds in our group do not seem to be benefitting from something that is too good IMO.
I am just so happy they ditched the "Dragon" and "Mithral" standard materials malarkey.
My big concern, as for equipment, is the Trident, it should obviously be 1d8 damage, Versatile 1d10.
Brock_Landers wrote:
Polaris wrote:
I think the trident just needs some underwater schtick to give it its own niche. I'd probably halve the range of thrown weapons and give them disadvantage up to their remaining full range except for tridents and those specal underwater crossbows from U3. It may not be scientific but it is tradition. It makes them very much a niche weapon although it's possible that there will be a trident and net fighting feat to give them something fun.
AaronOfBarbaria wrote: