Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 arnwolf666 Apr 23, 2015 14:59:47	I like the D&D armor class system.  It works fine.  But with certain settings I would prefer to do it differently.  For one of my settings I want to ise Defense = 10 + proficiency bonus + dex modifier.  But I can't find an effective way to use armor under such a system.  Any idea's that others have tested or seen done?  I am looking at only having two types of armor, Light armor and Heavy Armor.  Screw the medium armor.
#2 MechaPilot Apr 23, 2015 15:04:16	What are you looking to represent?  That might help the rest of get some idea of how to help.   In the absence of details, you could still use armor by having it provide DR, bonus HPs, or by using the better of the AC calculated both ways.
#3 arnwolf666 Apr 23, 2015 15:10:04	The game is still very similar to D&D, but most of the fighting is done in places where it would not be socially acceptable for PCs to be wearing armor or carrying heavy weapons.  It's a Star Wars/Doctor Who like game with wizards and gunslingers.  My light armor is Nanotech armore, my heavy armor is Technoweave armor, my players use Nanoshields, that can be summoned from a wrist watch like device on their arm.  No light sabres, but I do have a moonblade spell used by my Moonmages and Moonknights.  Many retractable weapons, the Space Rangers use retractable Staves that do 1d10 damage or 1d6 as a finesse weapon that can be used as a double weapon.  Little things like that.  My staves are very versatile, It can also be used as a Polearm for 1d8 and gain the benefits of Polearm Mastery.
#4 Tempest_Stormwind Apr 23, 2015 15:41:19	Pull from Star Wars: Saga Edition. Wearing armor gives you its AC (even if your prof-bonus AC is better - this is like Unarmored Defense, not Mage Armor), and any magical properties, but it also sets your proficiency bonus to 2 (light) or 1 (heavy) while worn. A feat (Armor Mastery) let's you wear armor and use your full proficiency bonus at all times. This encourages mooks to show up in armor (light has no drawback), but experienced PCs have outgrown it.
#5 gregsc Apr 23, 2015 22:04:15	I like the DR angle. Defense makes you harder to hit, armor soaks damage when you do get hit.
#6 arnwolf666 Apr 24, 2015 1:18:41	I am thinking Light Armor +1 Defense Damage Reduction 1 Heavy Armor Damage Reduction 3
#7 Jenks Apr 24, 2015 8:58:26	d20 Modern had a defense system for exactly this reason. You might wanna check it out for some inspiration.
#8 mellored Apr 24, 2015 10:06:25	IMO armor = THP.   recharges per short rest.
#9 FFSAA Apr 24, 2015 12:40:27	Look at Numenera.  It covers low tech to fantastically high tech and is easy to adapt it's rules to 5E.  For your setting it might be a better choice to use instead of 5E,although it is a narrative system rather than 5E's part-narrative/simulation mix.  Like you've suggested, light armor reduces physical damage by 1, heavy by 3 (medium by 2).  Damage numbers tend to be lower in Numenera however so you may want to change that.   As an alternative, if you don't mind the extra time you could do something like light reduces damage by d4-1 (0-3), heavy by d6-1 (0-5).
#10 MechaPilot Apr 24, 2015 13:02:44	You could also have it reduce the die type of the damage.  That might be relevant in the face of monsters that do multiple dice of damage.
#11 mellored Apr 24, 2015 13:04:45	MechaPilot wrote:
#12 Rastapopoulos Apr 24, 2015 18:42:57	arnwolf666 wrote:
(Reply to #9) arnwolf666	FFSAA wrote:
(Reply to #8) arnwolf666	mellored wrote:
#15 mellored Apr 24, 2015 19:21:30	once the THP is gone, the armor needs time to be repaired. presumably it's self repairing armor. or self replicating nanobots.
#16 Noon Apr 24, 2015 19:27:09	Why do you have to add proficiency?   It seems like you're trying to make up for taking armour away - then wondering what to do with armour once it's back? Because you're not really taking armour away - only part of the time. So its an over compensation.
#17 SirAntoine Apr 24, 2015 21:54:38	Rastapopoulos wrote:
(Reply to #16) arnwolf666	Noon wrote:
#19 Brock_Landers Apr 25, 2015 6:15:53	GIve every class a version of Unarmoured Defence (AC 10 + Dex mod + Cha mod, or 10 + Dex mod + Int mod, etc, etc).
#20 Kazadvorn Apr 25, 2015 8:47:21	I always thought that a damage reduction system for armor made more sense than having the concept of armor class increases making a target harder to hit. The whole armor class system is a hold over from the ancient Chainmail days, when D&D evolved from a tabletop miniatures Medieval mass combat system.   The problem comes in when you try to mix a system that uses increasing hit-points and damage reduction and scaling damage.   For instance, a if you assign heavy armor a damage reduction of, say, 8 hp... then it's a big deal at lower levels where an attack might only be doing 1d8, but at higher levels, where attacks cause much higher damage, it quickly becomes almost insignificant.   You also get the phenomenon of player in heavy armour being almost immune to damage at lower levels. You have to fudge and say things like... "any hit does at least one point of damage"... or else a dagger attack that does 1d4 damage will never damage a character in medium armor or better.
#21 Rastapopoulos Apr 25, 2015 10:14:19	Kazadvorn wrote:
#22 arnwolf666 Apr 25, 2015 13:21:36	I know Tempest_Stormwind will laugh and find what I am saying as ironic from previous posts.  But balancing the math using skill bonus for defense and armor a s damage reduction is not easy.  Especially since I have no ability score modifer above +3.
#23 Xeviat-DM Apr 25, 2015 15:04:10	What? It's perfectly easy to balance Proficiency to AC; it balances exactly with Proficiency to Attack. In fact, it might even be more balanced than the rules we have now. People will be a bit harder to hit, and fights will go longer, which may slightly penalize spellcasters, but they hardly attack AC anyway.   AC goes up by +2 as you scale your equipment (Light armor is harder to judge, as its scaling is from your dex modifier).   Studded Leather is perfectly affordable for a 1st level adventurer, and it's +2 AC. Starting proficiency bonus is also +2 AC. Tada, done.   You'll need to look at the Unarmored Defense feature.   As for what to use armor as? I'd use it as DR. You don't need it to scale with level much, as a good amount of increased damage is from multiple attacks. If you want it to scale with level, use the proficiency bonus as well.   It can be done. I'd recommend it for a modern or future type thing. Heck, the Starwars Armor replaces your defense bonus thing could work just fine. Just replace "Unarmored Defense" with something else, and replace armor proficiencies maybe, and you can make it work for you.
#24 RCanine Apr 26, 2015 12:26:25	I really like what Pillars of Eternity does. It basically gives everyone proficiency with every weapon and armor, and then says:   Armor reduces damage taken; values range from +0 to +10; DR is capped at the attack's minimum damage For every +1 DR a piece of armor gives you, it also gives you -2 initiative Heavy/Medium/Light armor doesn't limit how DEX works with AC Shields +AC values range from +1 to +3 For every +1 AC a shield gives you, it also gives you -1 to hit Weapons need not be light to qualify for two-weapon fighting. Light weapons give you +2 initiative Using a one-handed weapon with an empty off-hand gives you +2 to hit All melee weapons use the same damage dice:   Light: 1d6 One-handed: 1d8 Two-handed: 1d10 ...and then each weapon within that type has a neat property (accurate, multiple damage types, reach, etc).   EDIT: clarified how DEX figures in with AC.
#25 Brock_Landers Apr 26, 2015 11:09:32	I would let a player/character gain Unarmoured Defence (AC = 10 + Dex mod + Cha mod) to get the whole Avenger deal.
#26 BoldItalic Apr 26, 2015 12:14:26	How about armour = special thing that doubles the Dex Bonus (you are extra good at dodging) ?   AC = 10 + Dex Mod + Dex Mod
#27 Brock_Landers Apr 26, 2015 13:46:37	BoldItalic wrote:
(Reply to #23) arnwolf666	Xeviat-DM wrote:
#29 Noon Apr 26, 2015 16:13:59	arnwolf666 wrote:
(Reply to #29) arnwolf666	Noon wrote:
#31 Noon Apr 27, 2015 0:31:08	You could have shields that are a point defence system - thus they work by proficiency because that controls how good you are at point defence.   But they cost more to run than regular armour, so when people can use regular armour its much cheaper to do just that.
#32 RCanine Apr 27, 2015 8:57:05	Noon wrote:
#33 DaomSlayer Apr 27, 2015 9:27:28	mellored wrote:
#34 DaomSlayer Apr 27, 2015 9:22:36	arnwolf666 wrote:
#35 mellored Apr 27, 2015 9:29:29	DaomSlayer wrote:
#36 DaomSlayer Apr 27, 2015 9:34:10	Ahh no. Damage given to players that do not currently require an attack roll do not take armor into account. So adding temp HP instead of AC while donning armor would allow characters to be protected from anything that causes HP damage, which greatly expands the power and utility of wearing armor. Which is unbalanced. Which is easy. Anyone can come up with unbalanced mechanics, it's child's play. Harder to actually think things through and design something coherent with both the rest of the rules and with the story, isn't it. Maybe you should take more time next time to think things over.   Every time you argue on this forum you can never admit when you're wrong. It's sad.   "techno-armor" ? really? For D&D? You pulled that out from ...where? I think I know.   It seems like you just make up or say anything and use any rationalization to make it seem like stuff you write isn't completely absurd.
#37 mellored Apr 27, 2015 9:37:03	DaomSlayer wrote:
(Reply to #37) arnwolf666	mellored wrote:
#39 RCanine Apr 27, 2015 23:53:31	DaomSlayer wrote:
(Reply to #39) arnwolf666	RCanine wrote:
#41 Brock_Landers Apr 28, 2015 10:12:26	RCanine wrote: