Bloodlines

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 CulveDaddy Dec 28, 2014 3:23:58	What do you all think of using bloodlines in a cinematic campaign? I updated the orginal bloodline rules so they are compatible with fifth edition. I was thinking it'd be fun to do a campaign where character are 'gifted' or even have divine ancestary. I've only updated the Celestial, Dragon, Fiend and Fey bloodlines so far. Bloodlines Every so often, an individual is born who stands out a little from the rest of his people. This individual displays characteristics associated with a different kind of creature, such as a dragon, giant, celestial, or demon. Such a character is said to have a bloodline. Bloodlines can exist for any of a number of reasons. Perhaps the character has an unusual ancestor, such as a dragon who took alternate form to live among humans or elves. The character might be a throwback to an earlier age, when all species were more closely related. The bloodline might be the result of unusual supernatural energies present during conception, pregnancy, or birth. It could also be an omen sent by the gods, part of an ancient prophecy or dire legend. Bloodline Strength And Source Every bloodline has both a source (the kind of creature from which its characteristics are drawn) and a strength (minor, intermediate or major). The stronger the bloodline, the more potent the traits and benefits granted by it. Every source has a minor bloodline associated with it. A minor bloodline doesn't alter a character much, and thus don't represent a very significant power increase over an ordinary character. In some cases, the only bloodline associated with a source is minor. This is most often true of sources derived from relatively weak creatures such as minotaurs or hags. Many sources also have intermediate bloodlines. These affect the character's power level more drastically, and come from more potent races, such as elementals, and many dragons and giants. Major bloodlines only come from the most powerful and primal of sources, including celestials, demons, devils, and the mightiest of dragons. A character with a major bloodline is a potent scion of his ancestor, displaying significant powers and abilities. Bloodline Levels Over the course of his career, a character with a bloodline becomes more powerful than one without a bloodline. Because the power gain is gradual over a span of twenty levels. A bloodline character must take one or more levels of "bloodline" at various points in his career, as noted below. Before a character with a bloodline reaches the indicated character level, he must take one class level of "bloodline." Class levels of "bloodline" do not increase a character's character level the way a normal class level does, but they do provide certain benefits (see below). If the character does not take a class level of bloodline before reaching the character level indicated below, he gains no further bloodline traits and must take a 20% penalty on all future XP gains. As soon as he meets the minimum bloodline level, he gains all bloodline abilities due him according to his character level, and the XP penalty no longer applies. A bloodline level grants no increase in hit points and no class features. It counts as a normal class level for the purpose of determining proficiency bonuses. Include the character's bloodline level when calculating any character ability based on his class levels (such as save DCs for characters with special abilities whose DCs are based on class level). The character doesn't gain any abilities, spells known, or spells per day from the addition of his bloodline levels, though only the calculations of his level-based abilities are affected. If a character has levels in two or more classes in addition to his bloodline levels, each class gains the benefit of adding the bloodline levels when calculating abilities. Bloodline Levels Minor: 12th-level. Intermediate: 6th-level/12th-level. Major: 3rd-level/6th-level/12th-level. Bloodline Traits Depending on the strength of a character's bloodline, he gains a new bloodline trait every one, two, or four character levels. The traits gained are given in each bloodline description. Bloodline Trait Descriptions Bloodline traits fall into four categories. Ability Boost You gain a permanent +2 increase to the given ability score. This is similar to the ability increase gained by classes at every fourth level. Bloodline Affinity You gain a advantage on all Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, and Perform checks made to interact with creatures of your bloodline. Resilience You have advantage on a specific saving throws. Charm Resilience: You have advantage on saving throws against being charmed Concentration Resilience: You have advantage on constitution saving throws to maintain your concentration Poison Resilience: You have advantage on saving throws against poison. Proficiency You receive proficiency with the given skill. If you already have a you have proficiency with the skill, you have advantage on the skill. Special You gain a special ability. Common bloodline special abilities include a feat, natural armor, vulnerabilities, resistances, Immunities, special traits or actions. If you already have a feat that a bloodline provides as a bonus feat, you may choose a different feat.
#2 LuisCarlos17f Dec 28, 2014 10:19:07	I would like bloodlines for all the dragons, also the gem, oriental lungs, planar..even brainstealer and cobra dragon for illithids and yuan-tis half-dragons. * We should be careful about combos, for example a dragoborn sorcerer or a aasimar favored soul. What if there are racial classes in the future? I love the monster templates from 3.5 for PCs. * Bloodline feats like the 4th damphyr? * What about a theme or subclass with "monster points"? It would be like a mixture of mutation points from d20 Future and the demonblinder prestige class from 3.5 "Drows of the underdark".
#3 rampant Dec 28, 2014 11:00:11	Ok you're trying to hard to make this like the 3e version. Which had some issues to start with frankly. Ability boosts are a lot bigger deal than they were in 3e for starters, as is missing out on class HP and HD. I think we're gonna wanna look at the cost of bloodlines and the granularity of the ability progression because this doesn't look like a good idea in the context of 5e.
(Reply to #3) CulveDaddy	rampant wrote:
#5 rampant Dec 28, 2014 14:07:32	Well you're running into 2 major issues: costing and features. The costing of bloodlines was problematic in 3e, and the same issues persist here. You're trading class levels for things that aren't class levels and since class levels are so integral to the game it throws things off. Features are an issue because the features are too much like they were in 3e which had a very different approach to things like natural armor, energy resists, or stat boosts, i.e. they were vastly more common and easy to get. SOme of the problems are just a matter of updating things like smite no longer being alignment based for example. I think what you should be doing is setting up bloodlines a bit differently. For example instead of being declared at level 1 and you have to jam in non-levels to 'pay off' abilities you've been getign since level 1, why don't we make bloodlines into short classes with 3-5 levels, and a weak framework designed for multi-classing rather than base classing. Sort of a middle ground between 3e bloodlines and monster classes.
(Reply to #5) CulveDaddy	The costing of bloodlines was problematic in 3e, and the same issues persist here. You're trading class levels for things that aren't class levels and since class levels are so integral to the game it throws things off.
#7 rampant Dec 28, 2014 21:08:54	SOme problems are obvious enough you shouldn't need playtesting to know changes need to be made: The smite evil power granted by the celestial bloodline is gibberish since paladins don't smite evil in 5e, they just smite, and furthermore they burn their spells to do so, their level has little to do with it except giving them more and higher spell slots to burn. I'm not really worried that the bloodline powers aren't worth it, more the opposite problem really consideirng how many skills, ability boosts and energy resists get given out like candy I'm concerned that the power boost may in fact be OP especially at higher levels. I dislike the flexible payment plan for power because especially at middle levels you're getting power for stuff you haven't bought yet, or buying stuff you don't get yet, and no it doesn't balance out overtime, not every game goes 1-20. I dislike the blank levels because they remind me too much of LA adjustments and the book keeping and issues those caused, admittedly that isn't as big a deal for 5e as long as you don't screw up the proficiency modifier which you've already handled. However it seems silly to trade in class levels for things that aren't class levels, and that it could be the sort of thing that bites you in the arse. WHy not just turn the bloodlines into short classes and be done with it? THey're already trying to be classes anyway.
#8 cowleymen Dec 29, 2014 16:02:10	IVe never really liked bloodline mechanics of any editions. Its already easy enough to say that your prowess is because of some bloodline. I feel like this fits better as something that you fluff out with your DM then actually having real mechanics of it. One of the problems I have with most class based systems is that many people have a very hard time just looking at the mechanics sepreate from the story. Lets say you wanted to play a Greek mthy style demigod. Hercules fits much better as a Paladin multiclassed with fighter Battlemaster or any number of barbarian levels then just taking on celestial bloodline benefits. Bloodlines might make a return through backgrounds, and thats the way I would rather see them go. And no to bloodline "Classes" as i think that and monster classes are also the most annoying thing in the world.
#9 rampant Dec 29, 2014 17:07:22	Hercules? Paladin? uh? seriously? Also greek gods are about as celestial as a kobold sausage. BAckgrounds are kind of a waste of time for anything that's more than a couple of skill profs, I mean the trait is nice I guess but with only one trait it's hard to really do the bloodline thing, especially since it has to be an out of combat power. Also I'm not talking about monster classes, I'm not saying that we should create a minotaur or blue dragon class that will churn out Creatures from the MM. NO the idea is that if you want osmehting to cost class levels it should be a class. A bloodline class will give abilities themed around the creature/creature group in question not a copy of them.
(Reply to #7) CulveDaddy	SOme problems are obvious enough you shouldn't need playtesting to know changes need to be made: The smite evil power granted by the celestial bloodline is gibberish since paladins don't smite evil in 5e, they just smite, and furthermore they burn their spells to do so, their level has little to do with it except giving them more and higher spell slots to burn.
(Reply to #8) CulveDaddy	cowleymen wrote:
#12 rampant Dec 29, 2014 22:54:49	Of course you need play testing, all I'm saying is that several of the issues are obvious and cna be fixed ahead of time to make playtesting more productive. The celestial bloodline hand sout far too many reistances, furthemrore celestials aren't a named faction in the 5e monsters Angels are thier own tribe for example and have a very different set of resistances than the bloodline you have here. Next up is the fact that you don't take into account how the game values stat boosts, or how much more potent resist is in 5e since it's automatic hal-damage instead of being a flat reduction that can start small and get bigger over time. Ability boosts should be halved if not scrapped entirely given how 5e is about stat boosts, also you need to have some thought to what happens if the character has a 20 in the relevent stat already. I agree the bloodline currently acts as special class levels, I'm saying it shouldn't be special, I'm saying give thme a d4 HD and treat it like multi-classing, get rid of that strange bit where counts for some kinds of class abilities and just flat out call it it's own thing. Finally I'd advise that you consolidate the progression into that of a normal if short class instead of smearing it out over 20 levels with a ton of passive abilities consider short 3-5 level mini-classes that hand out active abilities that are a bit mor einteresting than dozens of passive features. If you do backgorunds a background you'd have to nerf the heck out of them.
(Reply to #12) CulveDaddy	Of course you need play testing, all I'm saying is that several of the issues are obvious and cna be fixed ahead of time to make playtesting more productive. The celestial bloodline hand sout far too many reistances, furthemrore celestials aren't a named faction in the 5e monsters Angels are thier own tribe for example and have a very different set of resistances than the bloodline you have here. Next up is the fact that you don't take into account how the game values stat boosts, or how much more potent resist is in 5e since it's automatic hal-damage instead of being a flat reduction that can start small and get bigger over time. Ability boosts should be halved if not scrapped entirely given how 5e is about stat boosts, also you need to have some thought to what happens if the character has a 20 in the relevent stat already.
#14 rampant Dec 30, 2014 0:06:46	Celestials are present, however they do not have a laundry list of resistances as a standard feature. Why keep the original costing mechanic when it is bad? +2 on a stat is not on par with a background
(Reply to #14) CulveDaddy	Celestials are present, however they do not have a laundry list of resistances as a standard feature.
#16 rampant Dec 30, 2014 8:47:42	Just because its a conversion you shouldn't take the opportunity to improve things? Furthermore if you aren't willing to make changes you can't convert things, even between editions of the same title, because the game changes so much that trying to stick too close to the source material damages the product.
(Reply to #16) CulveDaddy	rampant wrote:
#18 LuisCarlos17f Dec 30, 2014 22:28:18	Maybe we need something like the "template classes" from the articles "Savage Progressions" in the WotC web years ago.
#19 Oraibi Dec 30, 2014 23:42:34	I used feats to represent Birthright-style bloodlines in my 5th edition Birthright conversion. That might be a better way to go with this.
#20 rampant Dec 30, 2014 23:42:59	Something akin to that, but none of this crap where it sort of counts as another class or has no HP progression.
#21 cowleymen Dec 31, 2014 11:27:48	rampant wrote:
#22 rampant Dec 31, 2014 13:31:39	Herc wasn't particularly tough, he was strong as hell, but he was never shown to be particulalry durable, I mean I guess you could infer that he had to be incredibly tough in order for his muscles to not kill him, but he was never said to have any special resistance to damage. He never threw lightning bolts from a sword in any of the iterations I've read. Even the rage is iffy since it generally seemed to come from external interference, namely Hera. I'll give you the propensity to one on one combat.
#23 ChrisCarlson Dec 31, 2014 13:50:31	Quick Q: Should any/most/all characters, described as having "anger issues", necessarily be expected to consider levels in barbarian? Why not just make it a Personality Flaw ad gain inspiration for acting on it or playing it up?
(Reply to #22) CulveDaddy	rampant wrote:
#25 Orethalion Dec 31, 2014 14:24:12	CulveDaddy wrote:
(Reply to #23) CulveDaddy	ChrisCarlson wrote:
(Reply to #25) CulveDaddy	Orethalion wrote:
#28 Orethalion Dec 31, 2014 14:45:07	CulveDaddy wrote:
(Reply to #28) CulveDaddy	Orethalion wrote:
(Reply to #19) CulveDaddy	Oraibi wrote:
#31 rampant Dec 31, 2014 15:38:47	Yeah he killed his family in a fit of madness, that's one time, and most translations pin the blame for said fit on Hera, That sounds more like hostile magic than a class feature.
(Reply to #31) CulveDaddy	rampant wrote:

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

CulveDaddy

Dec 28, 2014 3:23:58

What do you all think of using bloodlines in a cinematic campaign? I updated the orginal bloodline rules so they are compatible with fifth edition. I was thinking it'd be fun to do a campaign where character are 'gifted' or even have divine ancestary. I've only updated the Celestial, Dragon, Fiend and Fey bloodlines so far.

Every so often, an individual is born who stands out a little from the rest of his people. This individual displays characteristics associated with a different kind of creature, such as a dragon, giant, celestial, or demon. Such a character is said to have a bloodline.

Bloodlines can exist for any of a number of reasons. Perhaps the character has an unusual ancestor, such as a dragon who took alternate form to live among humans or elves. The character might be a throwback to an earlier age, when all species were more closely related. The bloodline might be the result of unusual supernatural energies present during conception, pregnancy, or birth. It could also be an omen sent by the gods, part of an ancient prophecy or dire legend.

Bloodline Strength And Source

Every bloodline has both a source (the kind of creature from which its characteristics are drawn) and a strength (minor, intermediate or major). The stronger the bloodline, the more potent the traits and benefits granted by it.

Every source has a minor bloodline associated with it. A minor bloodline doesn't alter a character much, and thus don't represent a very significant power increase over an ordinary character. In some cases, the only bloodline associated with a source is minor. This is most often true of sources derived from relatively weak creatures such as minotaurs or hags.

Many sources also have intermediate bloodlines. These affect the character's power level more drastically, and come from more potent races, such as elementals, and many dragons and giants.

Major bloodlines only come from the most powerful and primal of sources, including celestials, demons, devils, and the mightiest of dragons. A character with a major bloodline is a potent scion of his ancestor, displaying significant powers and abilities.

Bloodline Levels

Over the course of his career, a character with a bloodline becomes more powerful than one without a bloodline. Because the power gain is gradual over a span of twenty levels. A bloodline character must take one or more levels of "bloodline" at various points in his career, as noted below. Before a character with a bloodline reaches the indicated character level, he must take one class level of "bloodline." Class levels of "bloodline" do not increase a character's character level the way a normal class level does, but they do provide certain benefits (see below).

If the character does not take a class level of bloodline before reaching the character level indicated below, he gains no further bloodline traits and must take a 20% penalty on all future XP gains. As soon as he meets the minimum bloodline level, he gains all bloodline abilities due him according to his character level, and the XP penalty no longer applies.

A bloodline level grants no increase in hit points and no class features. It counts as a normal class level for the purpose of determining proficiency bonuses.

Include the character's bloodline level when calculating any character ability based on his class levels (such as save DCs for characters with special abilities whose DCs are based on class level). The character doesn't gain any abilities, spells known, or spells per day from the addition of his bloodline levels, though only the calculations of his level-based abilities are affected.

If a character has levels in two or more classes in addition to his bloodline levels, each class gains the benefit of adding the bloodline levels when calculating abilities.

Bloodline Levels

Minor: 12th-level.
Intermediate: 6th-level/12th-level.
Major: 3rd-level/6th-level/12th-level.

Bloodline Traits

Depending on the strength of a character's bloodline, he gains a new bloodline trait every one, two, or four character levels. The traits gained are given in each bloodline description.

Bloodline Trait Descriptions

Bloodline traits fall into four categories.

Ability Boost

You gain a permanent +2 increase to the given ability score. This is similar to the ability increase gained by classes at every fourth level.

Bloodline Affinity

You gain a advantage on all Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, and Perform checks made to interact with creatures of your bloodline.

Resilience

You have advantage on a specific saving throws.

Charm Resilience: You have advantage on saving throws against being charmed
Concentration Resilience: You have advantage on constitution saving throws to maintain your concentration
Poison Resilience: You have advantage on saving throws against poison.

Proficiency

You receive proficiency with the given skill. If you already have a you have proficiency with the skill, you have advantage on the skill.

Special

You gain a special ability. Common bloodline special abilities include a feat, natural armor, vulnerabilities, resistances, Immunities, special traits or actions.

If you already have a feat that a bloodline provides as a bonus feat, you may choose a different feat.

LuisCarlos17f

Dec 28, 2014 10:19:07

I would like bloodlines for all the dragons, also the gem, oriental lungs, planar..even brainstealer and cobra dragon for illithids and yuan-tis half-dragons.

* We should be careful about combos, for example a dragoborn sorcerer or a aasimar favored soul. What if there are racial classes in the future? I love the monster templates from 3.5 for PCs.

* Bloodline feats like the 4th damphyr?

* What about a theme or subclass with "monster points"? It would be like a mixture of mutation points from d20 Future and the demonblinder prestige class from 3.5 "Drows of the underdark".

rampant

Dec 28, 2014 11:00:11

Ok you're trying to hard to make this like the 3e version. Which had some issues to start with frankly. Ability boosts are a lot bigger deal than they were in 3e for starters, as is missing out on class HP and HD. I think we're gonna wanna look at the cost of bloodlines and the granularity of the ability progression because this doesn't look like a good idea in the context of 5e.

(Reply to #3)

CulveDaddy

rampant wrote:

rampant

Dec 28, 2014 14:07:32

Well you're running into 2 major issues: costing and features.

The costing of bloodlines was problematic in 3e, and the same issues persist here. You're trading class levels for things that aren't class levels and since class levels are so integral to the game it throws things off.

Features are an issue because the features are too much like they were in 3e which had a very different approach to things like natural armor, energy resists, or stat boosts, i.e. they were vastly more common and easy to get. SOme of the problems are just a matter of updating things like smite no longer being alignment based for example.

I think what you should be doing is setting up bloodlines a bit differently. For example instead of being declared at level 1 and you have to jam in non-levels to 'pay off' abilities you've been getign since level 1, why don't we make bloodlines into short classes with 3-5 levels, and a weak framework designed for multi-classing rather than base classing. Sort of a middle ground between 3e bloodlines and monster classes.

(Reply to #5)

CulveDaddy

The costing of bloodlines was problematic in 3e, and the same issues persist here. You're trading class levels for things that aren't class levels and since class levels are so integral to the game it throws things off.

rampant

Dec 28, 2014 21:08:54

SOme problems are obvious enough you shouldn't need playtesting to know changes need to be made: The smite evil power granted by the celestial bloodline is gibberish since paladins don't smite evil in 5e, they just smite, and furthermore they burn their spells to do so, their level has little to do with it except giving them more and higher spell slots to burn.

I'm not really worried that the bloodline powers aren't worth it, more the opposite problem really consideirng how many skills, ability boosts and energy resists get given out like candy I'm concerned that the power boost may in fact be OP especially at higher levels.

I dislike the flexible payment plan for power because especially at middle levels you're getting power for stuff you haven't bought yet, or buying stuff you don't get yet, and no it doesn't balance out overtime, not every game goes 1-20.

I dislike the blank levels because they remind me too much of LA adjustments and the book keeping and issues those caused, admittedly that isn't as big a deal for 5e as long as you don't screw up the proficiency modifier which you've already handled. However it seems silly to trade in class levels for things that aren't class levels, and that it could be the sort of thing that bites you in the arse. WHy not just turn the bloodlines into short classes and be done with it? THey're already trying to be classes anyway.

cowleymen

Dec 29, 2014 16:02:10

IVe never really liked bloodline mechanics of any editions. Its already easy enough to say that your prowess is because of some bloodline. I feel like this fits better as something that you fluff out with your DM then actually having real mechanics of it. One of the problems I have with most class based systems is that many people have a very hard time just looking at the mechanics sepreate from the story. Lets say you wanted to play a Greek mthy style demigod. Hercules fits much better as a Paladin multiclassed with fighter Battlemaster or any number of barbarian levels then just taking on celestial bloodline benefits. Bloodlines might make a return through backgrounds, and thats the way I would rather see them go. And no to bloodline "Classes" as i think that and monster classes are also the most annoying thing in the world.

rampant

Dec 29, 2014 17:07:22

Hercules? Paladin? uh? seriously? Also greek gods are about as celestial as a kobold sausage.

BAckgrounds are kind of a waste of time for anything that's more than a couple of skill profs, I mean the trait is nice I guess but with only one trait it's hard to really do the bloodline thing, especially since it has to be an out of combat power.

Also I'm not talking about monster classes, I'm not saying that we should create a minotaur or blue dragon class that will churn out Creatures from the MM. NO the idea is that if you want osmehting to cost class levels it should be a class. A bloodline class will give abilities themed around the creature/creature group in question not a copy of them.

(Reply to #7)

CulveDaddy

SOme problems are obvious enough you shouldn't need playtesting to know changes need to be made: The smite evil power granted by the celestial bloodline is gibberish since paladins don't smite evil in 5e, they just smite, and furthermore they burn their spells to do so, their level has little to do with it except giving them more and higher spell slots to burn.

(Reply to #8)

CulveDaddy

cowleymen wrote:

#12

rampant

Dec 29, 2014 22:54:49

Of course you need play testing, all I'm saying is that several of the issues are obvious and cna be fixed ahead of time to make playtesting more productive. The celestial bloodline hand sout far too many reistances, furthemrore celestials aren't a named faction in the 5e monsters Angels are thier own tribe for example and have a very different set of resistances than the bloodline you have here. Next up is the fact that you don't take into account how the game values stat boosts, or how much more potent resist is in 5e since it's automatic hal-damage instead of being a flat reduction that can start small and get bigger over time. Ability boosts should be halved if not scrapped entirely given how 5e is about stat boosts, also you need to have some thought to what happens if the character has a 20 in the relevent stat already.

I agree the bloodline currently acts as special class levels, I'm saying it shouldn't be special, I'm saying give thme a d4 HD and treat it like multi-classing, get rid of that strange bit where counts for some kinds of class abilities and just flat out call it it's own thing.

Finally I'd advise that you consolidate the progression into that of a normal if short class instead of smearing it out over 20 levels with a ton of passive abilities consider short 3-5 level mini-classes that hand out active abilities that are a bit mor einteresting than dozens of passive features.

If you do backgorunds a background you'd have to nerf the heck out of them.

(Reply to #12)

CulveDaddy

Of course you need play testing, all I'm saying is that several of the issues are obvious and cna be fixed ahead of time to make playtesting more productive. The celestial bloodline hand sout far too many reistances, furthemrore celestials aren't a named faction in the 5e monsters Angels are thier own tribe for example and have a very different set of resistances than the bloodline you have here. Next up is the fact that you don't take into account how the game values stat boosts, or how much more potent resist is in 5e since it's automatic hal-damage instead of being a flat reduction that can start small and get bigger over time. Ability boosts should be halved if not scrapped entirely given how 5e is about stat boosts, also you need to have some thought to what happens if the character has a 20 in the relevent stat already.

#14

rampant

Dec 30, 2014 0:06:46

Celestials are present, however they do not have a laundry list of resistances as a standard feature.

Why keep the original costing mechanic when it is bad?

+2 on a stat is not on par with a background

(Reply to #14)

CulveDaddy

Celestials are present, however they do not have a laundry list of resistances as a standard feature.

#16

rampant

Dec 30, 2014 8:47:42

Just because its a conversion you shouldn't take the opportunity to improve things? Furthermore if you aren't willing to make changes you can't convert things, even between editions of the same title, because the game changes so much that trying to stick too close to the source material damages the product.

(Reply to #16)

CulveDaddy

rampant wrote:

#18

LuisCarlos17f

Dec 30, 2014 22:28:18

Maybe we need something like the "template classes" from the articles "Savage Progressions" in the WotC web years ago.

#19

Oraibi

Dec 30, 2014 23:42:34

I used feats to represent Birthright-style bloodlines in my 5th edition Birthright conversion. That might be a better way to go with this.

#20

rampant

Dec 30, 2014 23:42:59

Something akin to that, but none of this crap where it sort of counts as another class or has no HP progression.

#21

cowleymen

Dec 31, 2014 11:27:48

rampant wrote:

#22

rampant

Dec 31, 2014 13:31:39

Herc wasn't particularly tough, he was strong as hell, but he was never shown to be particulalry durable, I mean I guess you could infer that he had to be incredibly tough in order for his muscles to not kill him, but he was never said to have any special resistance to damage. He never threw lightning bolts from a sword in any of the iterations I've read. Even the rage is iffy since it generally seemed to come from external interference, namely Hera. I'll give you the propensity to one on one combat.

#23

ChrisCarlson

Dec 31, 2014 13:50:31

Quick Q: Should any/most/all characters, described as having "anger issues", necessarily be expected to consider levels in barbarian? Why not just make it a Personality Flaw ad gain inspiration for acting on it or playing it up?

(Reply to #22)

CulveDaddy

rampant wrote:

#25

Orethalion

Dec 31, 2014 14:24:12

CulveDaddy wrote:

(Reply to #23)

CulveDaddy

ChrisCarlson wrote:

(Reply to #25)

CulveDaddy

Orethalion wrote:

#28

Orethalion

Dec 31, 2014 14:45:07

CulveDaddy wrote:

(Reply to #28)

CulveDaddy

Orethalion wrote:

(Reply to #19)

CulveDaddy

Oraibi wrote:

#31

rampant

Dec 31, 2014 15:38:47

Yeah he killed his family in a fit of madness, that's one time, and most translations pin the blame for said fit on Hera, That sounds more like hostile magic than a class feature.

(Reply to #31)

CulveDaddy

rampant wrote: