Bringing back the "Elf" class for 5th edition. - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 XunValDorl_of_HouseKilsek Aug 29, 2014 11:23:34	Wouldn't it be great to bring back the "elf" class of old? Not really sure how it could be done, but I would play one in a heartbeat.
#2 sailoroswald Aug 29, 2014 11:34:41	From what I understand, you could play an Elf Eldritch Knight. That's from what I understand, however. I started playing with 3rd edition. So I'm going off of what people have said about the Elf class.
#3 Brock_Landers Aug 29, 2014 11:45:34	I was working on a conversion, fighter extra attack, wizard spells, but no subclass features, some other bits; I am very interested in converting race as class to 5th Ed.
#4 Kalani Aug 29, 2014 12:07:48	You mean BECMI elves I assume. Adnd elves had classes like everyone else. If you do go this route - the best solution is to limit most classes to human. Demihuman classes would include a predefined race, class and subclass option(s). Halflings = halfling rouge thieves. Elves = elf eldritch knights (elf only subclass) and so on. I recommend removing all human traits and replacing them with the ability to choose wizard, fighter, rogue or cleric using the basic rules subclasses exclusively. Make sure to remove multiclassing in your game if using BECMI races and classes
#5 TiaNadiezja Aug 29, 2014 12:10:39	Eldritch Knight IS the Elf. It's awesome.
#6 Brock_Landers Aug 29, 2014 12:20:31	TiaNadiezja wrote:
#7 Oulak Aug 29, 2014 12:22:01	The Basic Elf class topped out at 12th level and had access to 6th level wizard spells (can't verify - at work without my books). While the Eldritch Knight is great in a thematic sense, the power level of magic wielded isn't comparable, as they top out at 4th level spells, and that only at level 18 or so. I'd be tempted to modify the spell progression chart of the eldritch knight if I had the time and drive to homebrew it.
#8 Brock_Landers Aug 29, 2014 12:28:14	Oulak wrote:
#9 Artifact Aug 29, 2014 12:38:54	There were dwarf-clerics in Gazetteer 6 Dwarves of Rockhome (a supplement for BECM). I took great inspiration from that section in detailing religion in our 3.5 homebrew. From my notes Non-humans are very private about their religious practices. Except for humans, each race’s religious beliefs and practices are mostly hidden from outsiders. Very little is known about a particular race’s religion by outsiders. For instance, a dwarven cleric will almost never reveal to a non-dwarf that he is a servant of the Soul Forger. He would have to have been a longtime friend of the non-dwarf, and there would need to be some pressing reason for him to make this admission. A dwarven cleric would likewise only use healing magic on a non-dwarf if the other were a close friend and/or if matters were extremely dire.
#10 Chakravant Aug 29, 2014 13:01:17	TiaNadiezja wrote:
#11 Chakravant Aug 29, 2014 13:02:59	Brock_Landers wrote:
#12 Atheosis Aug 29, 2014 13:28:07	XunValDorl_of_HouseKilsek wrote:
#13 rampant Aug 29, 2014 14:10:23	Well I like the idea because making classes is something I enjoy. Although I think it would be a good idea to include drow, high, wood, and half-elf sub-classes, maybe sea elves as well. Does it need any unique features? Or are just talking about mixing weapons, magic, and agility?
#14 Novacat Aug 29, 2014 14:17:52	If there were an Elf class, I'd want to try a Dwarf Elf.
#15 Ramzour Aug 29, 2014 14:20:39	Chakravant wrote:
#16 Brock_Landers Aug 29, 2014 14:57:25	Chakravant wrote:
#17 Hitdice Aug 29, 2014 15:37:55	When I'm not Dm-ing, I play a half elf (granted, high elf is a better fit, for flavor and mechanics) eldritch knight, who's going to take Ritual Caster for wider spell use out of combat in place of his stat bump once he hits fourth level. I think Mel (it's not his full elven name, it's just what it sounds like to humans, so deal with it) is going to get pretty close to a B/X elf, but I'l have to get back to you once I've played through the level progression a bit.
#18 Brock_Landers Aug 29, 2014 15:54:54	Hitdice wrote:
(Reply to #14) Lord_Ventnor	Novacat wrote:
#20 IxidorRS Aug 29, 2014 16:11:54	If the problem is they don't get the right level of spells, you could maybe houserule it that Elves who take Fighter can choose to be an Eldritch Knight from level 1, get a few more spells because of it, but lose out on some other feature of being a fighter.
#21 seti Aug 29, 2014 16:19:51	Anyone wanna bring back the female strength cap too? Just kidding. I think the eldrich knight is perfect for that archetype, but...Eh, I only liked the race classes back then because it was the only choice, and I was young; I didn't build classes or anything until 2e had rules for it. In retrospect, race as class is a dumb idea. I'm biased, though, I don't like human male medieval Europe style D&D much. Again...it was the only choice in the 80's.
#22 Brock_Landers Aug 29, 2014 16:16:14	Lord_Ventnor wrote:
#23 Hitdice Aug 29, 2014 21:43:19	Brock_Landers wrote:
#24 Brock_Landers Aug 30, 2014 1:51:59	Hitdice wrote:
#25 BW0222 Aug 30, 2014 8:03:20	If you mean the Basic/Expert version of D&D from the 1980s... it is easy enough to replicate in 5E. Take high elf as a race. Alternately take levels of fighter and wizard using the multi-classing rules. You'll be an elf with fighting and magic abilities and average hit points.
#26 rampant Aug 30, 2014 8:15:35	That's the boring and inefficient way, yes.
#27 AH_schulerta Aug 30, 2014 10:22:10	An "Elf" class needs spellcasting from 1st level, other than that, Elritch Knight is as close as you are going to get.
#28 TiaNadiezja Aug 30, 2014 10:45:59	An elf has spellcasting from first level. It just sits in the race instead of the class.
(Reply to #28) AH_schulerta	TiaNadiezja wrote:
#30 rampant Aug 30, 2014 11:24:14	Look if we want an elf class we gotta start looking at building the elf class, yes you could do an eldritch knight with the proper backgorund and do it that way, but that doesn't give me an excuse to do my thing. First of all what kind impact should an ELF have on the battlefield. Now the big things that come to me when I think elf, are bows, fancy swords, magic and agility. However that's a bit broad, and a bit vague. So let's add a few parameters to narrow it down a bit. 1. Magic, actual spell slot magic I'd assume, but does it have to be arcane? I know high elves would prefer arcane magic, but a divine option might be appropriate for drow and wild elves. Now the higher the spell levels go the more inclined I am to limit the spell list since the class is going to be pretty versatile as is. Furthermore I don't think it'd be appropriate to let them go hog wild on what spells they can choose these aren't dedicated wizards afterall. 2. Weapons, swords and bows are traditional, but the dark elves have a thing for dual blades and crossbows. What I'm thinking is 2 options for melee and ranged combat styles (total 4 styles), the elf chooses 1 melee and one ranged style, and then the elf chooses either ranged or melee style to be primary and that style advances faster and gets completed, while the other style is slower to advance and probably doesn't complete. 3. Agility, how much and to what extent? Are we talking proficient in dex saves and a boost to speed or do we wanna make this a major theme fo rthe class?
#31 Kalani Aug 30, 2014 12:14:36	AH_schulerta wrote:
#32 UnknownMourner Aug 30, 2014 15:58:40	They also required x2 the experience of some of the other classes.
#33 rampant Aug 30, 2014 17:03:14	NOt doing that. That kind of stuff isn't useful in a level based team game unless the core skeletons of classes advance differnetly, and th eproficiency bonus rule seems to say that won't work in 5e.
#34 FaerieGodfather Sep 05, 2014 8:19:56	College of War Bard is really close. Need to swap out the Bard spells for, say... Druid. I, for one, am a huge fan of race-as-class and even racial class restrictions. (Not level limits, though.) The only problem with the class restrictions in AD&D was a really boring implementation-- every race got Fighter, Cleric, and Thief, a rare few got Mage, and almost nobody got subclasses. One of my houserules involved making up a much longer class list... and then splitting it up so that every race got a unique selection of single-class and multiclass options. (Except Elves, the only race that could not single-class.)
#35 Lawolf Sep 05, 2014 8:38:43	Ok, now I know Xun is just trolling. Right?
(Reply to #35) TheLyons	Lawolf wrote:

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

XunValDorl_of_HouseKilsek

Aug 29, 2014 11:23:34

Wouldn't it be great to bring back the "elf" class of old? Not really sure how it could be done, but I would play one in a heartbeat.

sailoroswald

Aug 29, 2014 11:34:41

From what I understand, you could play an Elf Eldritch Knight.

That's from what I understand, however. I started playing with 3rd edition.

So I'm going off of what people have said about the Elf class.

Brock_Landers

Aug 29, 2014 11:45:34

I was working on a conversion, fighter extra attack, wizard spells, but no subclass features, some other bits; I am very interested in converting race as class to 5th Ed.

Kalani

Aug 29, 2014 12:07:48

You mean BECMI elves I assume. Adnd elves had classes like everyone else. If you do go this route - the best solution is to limit most classes to human. Demihuman classes would include a predefined race, class and subclass option(s).

Halflings = halfling rouge thieves.

Elves = elf eldritch knights (elf only subclass)

and so on.

I recommend removing all human traits and replacing them with the ability to choose wizard, fighter, rogue or cleric using the basic rules subclasses exclusively.

Make sure to remove multiclassing in your game if using BECMI races and classes

TiaNadiezja

Aug 29, 2014 12:10:39

Eldritch Knight IS the Elf. It's awesome.

Brock_Landers

Aug 29, 2014 12:20:31

TiaNadiezja wrote:

Oulak

Aug 29, 2014 12:22:01

The Basic Elf class topped out at 12th level and had access to 6th level wizard spells (can't verify - at work without my books). While the Eldritch Knight is great in a thematic sense, the power level of magic wielded isn't comparable, as they top out at 4th level spells, and that only at level 18 or so. I'd be tempted to modify the spell progression chart of the eldritch knight if I had the time and drive to homebrew it.

Brock_Landers

Aug 29, 2014 12:28:14

Oulak wrote:

Artifact

Aug 29, 2014 12:38:54

There were dwarf-clerics in Gazetteer 6 Dwarves of Rockhome (a supplement for BECM).

I took great inspiration from that section in detailing religion in our 3.5 homebrew.

From my notes

Non-humans are very private about their religious practices. Except for humans, each race’s religious beliefs and practices are mostly hidden from outsiders. Very little is known about a particular race’s religion by outsiders. For instance, a dwarven cleric will almost never reveal to a non-dwarf that he is a servant of the Soul Forger. He would have to have been a longtime friend of the non-dwarf, and there would need to be some pressing reason for him to make this admission. A dwarven cleric would likewise only use healing magic on a non-dwarf if the other were a close friend and/or if matters were extremely dire.

#10

Chakravant

Aug 29, 2014 13:01:17

TiaNadiezja wrote:

#11

Chakravant

Aug 29, 2014 13:02:59

Brock_Landers wrote:

#12

Atheosis

Aug 29, 2014 13:28:07

XunValDorl_of_HouseKilsek wrote:

#13

rampant

Aug 29, 2014 14:10:23

Well I like the idea because making classes is something I enjoy.

Although I think it would be a good idea to include drow, high, wood, and half-elf sub-classes, maybe sea elves as well.

Does it need any unique features? Or are just talking about mixing weapons, magic, and agility?

#14

Novacat

Aug 29, 2014 14:17:52

If there were an Elf class, I'd want to try a Dwarf Elf.

#15

Ramzour

Aug 29, 2014 14:20:39

Chakravant wrote:

#16

Brock_Landers

Aug 29, 2014 14:57:25

Chakravant wrote:

#17

Hitdice

Aug 29, 2014 15:37:55

When I'm not Dm-ing, I play a half elf (granted, high elf is a better fit, for flavor and mechanics) eldritch knight, who's going to take Ritual Caster for wider spell use out of combat in place of his stat bump once he hits fourth level. I think Mel (it's not his full elven name, it's just what it sounds like to humans, so deal with it) is going to get pretty close to a B/X elf, but I'l have to get back to you once I've played through the level progression a bit.

#18

Brock_Landers

Aug 29, 2014 15:54:54

Hitdice wrote:

(Reply to #14)

Lord_Ventnor

Novacat wrote:

#20

IxidorRS

Aug 29, 2014 16:11:54

If the problem is they don't get the right level of spells, you could maybe houserule it that Elves who take Fighter can choose to be an Eldritch Knight from level 1, get a few more spells because of it, but lose out on some other feature of being a fighter.

#21

seti

Aug 29, 2014 16:19:51

Anyone wanna bring back the female strength cap too?

Just kidding.

I think the eldrich knight is perfect for that archetype, but...Eh, I only liked the race classes back then because it was the only choice, and I was young; I didn't build classes or anything until 2e had rules for it.

In retrospect, race as class is a dumb idea. I'm biased, though, I don't like human male medieval Europe style D&D much. Again...it was the only choice in the 80's.

#22

Brock_Landers

Aug 29, 2014 16:16:14

Lord_Ventnor wrote:

#23

Hitdice

Aug 29, 2014 21:43:19

Brock_Landers wrote:

#24

Brock_Landers

Aug 30, 2014 1:51:59

Hitdice wrote:

#25

BW0222

Aug 30, 2014 8:03:20

If you mean the Basic/Expert version of D&D from the 1980s... it is easy enough to replicate in 5E.

Take high elf as a race. Alternately take levels of fighter and wizard using the multi-classing rules. You'll be an elf with fighting and magic abilities and average hit points.

#26

rampant

Aug 30, 2014 8:15:35

That's the boring and inefficient way, yes.

#27

AH_schulerta

Aug 30, 2014 10:22:10

An "Elf" class needs spellcasting from 1st level, other than that, Elritch Knight is as close as you are going to get.

#28

TiaNadiezja

Aug 30, 2014 10:45:59

An elf has spellcasting from first level. It just sits in the race instead of the class.

(Reply to #28)

AH_schulerta

TiaNadiezja wrote:

#30

rampant

Aug 30, 2014 11:24:14

Look if we want an elf class we gotta start looking at building the elf class, yes you could do an eldritch knight with the proper backgorund and do it that way, but that doesn't give me an excuse to do my thing.

First of all what kind impact should an ELF have on the battlefield.

Now the big things that come to me when I think elf, are bows, fancy swords, magic and agility.

However that's a bit broad, and a bit vague. So let's add a few parameters to narrow it down a bit.

1. Magic, actual spell slot magic I'd assume, but does it have to be arcane? I know high elves would prefer arcane magic, but a divine option might be appropriate for drow and wild elves. Now the higher the spell levels go the more inclined I am to limit the spell list since the class is going to be pretty versatile as is. Furthermore I don't think it'd be appropriate to let them go hog wild on what spells they can choose these aren't dedicated wizards afterall.

2. Weapons, swords and bows are traditional, but the dark elves have a thing for dual blades and crossbows. What I'm thinking is 2 options for melee and ranged combat styles (total 4 styles), the elf chooses 1 melee and one ranged style, and then the elf chooses either ranged or melee style to be primary and that style advances faster and gets completed, while the other style is slower to advance and probably doesn't complete.

3. Agility, how much and to what extent? Are we talking proficient in dex saves and a boost to speed or do we wanna make this a major theme fo rthe class?

#31

Kalani

Aug 30, 2014 12:14:36

AH_schulerta wrote:

#32

UnknownMourner

Aug 30, 2014 15:58:40

They also required x2 the experience of some of the other classes.

#33

rampant

Aug 30, 2014 17:03:14

NOt doing that. That kind of stuff isn't useful in a level based team game unless the core skeletons of classes advance differnetly, and th eproficiency bonus rule seems to say that won't work in 5e.

#34

FaerieGodfather

Sep 05, 2014 8:19:56

College of War Bard is really close. Need to swap out the Bard spells for, say... Druid.

I, for one, am a huge fan of race-as-class and even racial class restrictions. (Not level limits, though.) The only problem with the class restrictions in AD&D was a really boring implementation-- every race got Fighter, Cleric, and Thief, a rare few got Mage, and almost nobody got subclasses. One of my houserules involved making up a much longer class list... and then splitting it up so that every race got a unique selection of single-class and multiclass options. (Except Elves, the only race that could not single-class.)

#35

Lawolf

Sep 05, 2014 8:38:43

Ok, now I know Xun is just trolling. Right?

(Reply to #35)

TheLyons

Lawolf wrote: