| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| #1ctrl_alt_beliefSep 21, 2014 11:43:22 | Maybe this is the wrong forum for this, but I whomped up a reasonably balanced playable centaur race for 5th, and I thought I'd throw it up here to get some thoughts on it. No level adjustment, and I think none required (speed is the only major balance issue, as there are no size penalties or benefits in the Monster Manual version, and the hooves attack is somewhat scaled down too). Compared to the other current player races, I think this template meshes well. Feedback very much requested! Centaur • Ability Score increase: Your Strength score increases by 2, and you may choose to increase either Wisdom or Dexterity by 1. • Alignment: As nomadic, sylvan creatures, Centaur culture tends to shirk the order of settled civilizations. Centaurs are predisposed to chaos. •Languages: You can speak, read and write Common and Sylvan. • Size: Centaurs stand between 8 and 10 feet tall. Your size is Large, but your humanoid arms grant you a reach of 5’, and you may only wield weapons as a Medium creature. • Speed: Your base walking speed is 50’. • Nature’s Warden: You gain proficiency in Nature and Survival. • No Way That’ll Fit You: With the exception of the Breastplate and Chain Shirt options, you cannot wear armor fitted for humanoids, and armor you purchase must be fitted as barding (at 4x the cost). • Equine Stature: You treat all weapon attacks as though you were mounted (for instance, you take no penalty for using a lance). Also, if you are willing, you may be treated as a mount by another character, retaining separate initiative rolls. • Natural Weapons: On your turn, you may use an action to attack with your hooves as an unarmed strike that deals 1d8 bludgeoning damage. The damage increases at 5th level (1d10) and 10th level (1d12). |
| #2LlenlleawgSep 21, 2014 11:57:28 | You might want to wait for DMG to come out before setting this in stone, as I believe it will deal with making other PC races.
My caution about a centaur race is that some things will be impossible for the centaur PC (e.g. scaling a wall, climbing a rope or ladder, crawling through a Small space, etc.). Will the centaur just have to sit those parts out? Or, will the DM never be able to have the players need to climb a rope, scale a wall, go up a ladder, crawl through kobold tunnels, etc.? The former won't be so fun for the player. The latter basically removes what should be the principal balancing feature for this race. (It's like having an aquatic superhero in superhero games. Either there is often no water around, in which case there's little for him to do, or there is, and then the drawback for being an aquatic hero is basically nullified.)
However, you may have had good experience with centaur PCs before! |
| (Reply to #2)ctrl_alt_belief |
|
| #4rampantSep 21, 2014 13:19:26 | Well first off make them choos ebetwene the dex or the wis bump giving both seems a little strong, also the hooves ability is rather innappropriate for a racial feature, that might work as a racial feat. |
| (Reply to #4)ctrl_alt_belief |
|
| #6MechaPilotSep 21, 2014 13:32:53 |
|
| #7rampantSep 21, 2014 13:42:13 | There's already unarmed combat rules so a full grown centaur could very well kick something even without the ability, furthermore given their body shape the image of one rearing up on their hind legs and doing the whole hail of sharp forehooves bit is kind of stupid, now the traditional kick from hell with the back legs is another thing entirely. That would make an excellent racial ability, maybe a triggered effect when someone tries to gang up on them or something?
The problem with handing out a freely useable natural attack is that it's either useless to a non-weapon class, useless to a weapon classs, or OP for a weapon class. Which makes it very swingy and hard to set the damage for, even at 1d10 it's pretty nice to have that kind of damage and still have hand free for a shield and something else. |
| #8MechaPilotSep 21, 2014 13:49:07 | I was under the impression that the hoof attack was with the rear hooves, though it isn't specified so it's probably just how my imagination works. That said, a hoof is harder than a fist so I can see even a single forehoof strike doing 1d6 instead of 1d4 damage. Of course, I wouldn't require the centaurs entire action for that unless making a single attack used up the centaur's entire action. |
| #9rampantSep 21, 2014 13:52:41 | But getitng the rear hooves into position seems like it should be pretty awkward, unless some moron tries to sneak up on you. |
| #10MechaPilotSep 21, 2014 13:58:58 |
|
| #11rampantSep 21, 2014 15:13:50 | I'm not sure that adding that level of facing is a good idea.
I was thinking that we could abstract it to a triggered effect caused by multiple enemies trying to engage you in melee?
I think creatures can already use each other as cover. |
| #12ctrl_alt_beliefSep 21, 2014 15:46:57 | I'd agree, the order of the day in 5thEd is simplify, simplify, simplify. Once you get into facing and all that it's trending into PF/3.5 depth, which 5th tries to avoid (and I actually really support the streamlining). There are already so many class features that turn various attacks into bonus actions, that it seems like a racial feat is redundant. Making it a standard action takes away to OPness of it, because then you have to forego something else you could do. I had it scale so that it's something that improves along with other weapons and spells, but never gets past the value of a common melee weapon. Treating the hooves attack as a normal unarmed attack (1+strength) doesn't make much sense considering a human fist does not have the weight or hardness going for it. The idea of a rear-hoof kick is cool, sure, but that can be accounted for by opportunity attacks taken as a reaction with the hoof attack. Bottom line, 5th really isn't built for super deep tactical details like that, and my goal is to fit into the streamlined nature of play. |
| #13MechaPilotSep 21, 2014 15:59:54 | Part of the problem of the centaur is that facing is sort of necessary. If the human part of the centaur only has a 5 foot reach, you need to know which part of the 10 by 10 space the centaur's human part occupies to determine what targets it can reach. |
| #14ZardnaarSep 21, 2014 16:09:07 | Seems heavily based on the half elf. +2 skills +2/+1/+1 ability scores.
Strength is argueably better than the half elfs charisma bonus. Maybe +2 strength +1 to a stat of your choice. It just seems better than most of the races. Being able to use a lance 1 handed for example+ hoof attacks seems a bit OP when combined with those ability scores. The half elf is really a skill monkey race, this seems to be a combat machine race and better at it than the other races to boot. |
| #15ctrl_alt_beliefSep 22, 2014 17:49:04 | Combat machine with a major penalty when it comes to looting or buying armor. And the hooves, the whole point of making them a standard (as opposed to a bonus) action and scaling their damage is that denying them completely is illogical, but they need to be reined in (not sorry). So they're at a point where to me, any proper fighter has much more valuable weapons at their level, but it's a decent fallback. I think you're right about the ability scores though; when combined with natural weapons, mobility, and mounted weapon bennies, it's kind of a lot (even factoring in armor). My thinking was about Centaurs as iconic rangers, with the horse-person strength factor on top. What about +2 STR, and +1 to either DEX or WIS? That preserves the cultural factor while whittling down the mechanical powerhouse. |
| #16FallingIcicleSep 22, 2014 18:03:59 | I would give centaurs advantage on saving throws to resist being knocked prone, since they have four legs. |
| #17MechaPilotSep 22, 2014 19:46:25 |
|
| (Reply to #17)ctrl_alt_belief | I mean, essentially, that's my goal, is making it *an* attack option but limited to one attack option per turn (so that, for instance, a centaur monk doesn't get to make 5 d8 attacks at level 2). But still, I want it to be comparable to the monster entry, which is 2d6 (my version doesn't scale up that high, presuming that taking a character level means they focus on other things, so the multiattack 2d6 never quite materializes). Limiting it to a d6 makes it compatible with above-average hand-to-hand combatants, but only for the first few levels. My scalar is meant to keep it under the level of a MM centaur, but reasonable as a panic button attack when that armor limitation comes into play.
What about this: "When you make the Attack action on your turn or as a reaction, you may choose to use your hooves to kick a target within 5 feet. This attack uses your Strength and Proficiency bonuses, and deals damage equal to 1d8 + your Strength modifier. You can use this feature once per round. The damage die for this attack increases at 5th level (1d10) and 10th level (1d12)."
*EDIT* Of course, that language prevents the awesomeness of a hoof-kata centaur Buce Lee, which, as a DM, I kind of want to see on the table. But still. |
| #19MechaPilotSep 22, 2014 20:53:09 |
|
| (Reply to #16)ctrl_alt_belief |
|
| #21ctrl_alt_beliefSep 22, 2014 21:04:46 |
|