Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 shintashi Jun 17, 2015 13:34:58	What if the Player Character classes had a 1:1 ratio for challenge rating. Like, if a Wizard or Rogue were level 18, and they were also CR 18, how would their attributes, abilities, spells, etc. differ? Or would they be the same?   If a character were the same Challenge Rating as their level, what what they look like in the monstrous manual?   I invite this topic as a generalized discussion of how power:level:parity has changed in the 5th edition, and how magical items, boons, etc. might influence that. Perhaps we can also divine what the actual challenge rating of PC classes for NPCs might be, both stock and variant.
#2 Synjin Jun 17, 2015 13:47:33	If I'm not mistaken, a CR:1 PC would be a CR:1/4 Monster, no?
#3 shintashi Jun 17, 2015 14:30:22	Synjin wrote:
#4 FFSAA Jun 17, 2015 17:44:24	Just run stuff through the monster CR maker thing in the DMG.  You'll find certain things like picking the shield spell and the toughness feat will have a fairly dramatic change in CRs.
#5 pukunui Jun 17, 2015 19:06:21	There are too many variables. CR is as much about what weapons and armor you're using - and/or what ratio of offensive/defensive vs utility spells you're packing - as it is about what class features you've got.
#6 Brock_Landers Jun 18, 2015 2:04:28	I pretty much ignore CR, as 5th Ed is very eye-balling friendly, I have pretty much eye-balled encounters in every edition, as each party is different (a CR X to one, is CR Z to another).
#7 Razintarr Jun 18, 2015 3:46:37	Under 5th Challenge means the creature on its own is an appropriate encounter for a whole party.   One wizard/rogue of level 18 isn't going to be a challenge for a party of 4 or 5 level 18 characters, unless it's damage and survivability are cranked up a lot. Maybe by adding legendary resistance and actions.
#8 Xeviat-DM Jun 18, 2015 13:15:39	My own simple builds at level 20 show a champion or a battlemaster who spent all their ability score increases on ability scores (str, then con, then maybe wis) tested in at CR 12 (this was assuming per short rest abilities were being rationed out over the course of 2 encounters, though, as I did the math for analyzing PCs against each other). Feats could definitely push that.   Just compare the lich to a PC wizard and see what you'd need to give to crank up it's CR drastically; though a PC spellcaster as an enemy can afford to dump a lot of spells in one fight, and is thus a rather offense focused challenge.
#9 shintashi Jun 19, 2015 8:55:47	i tried messing with the DMG chart and calculated my wife's warlock and my ranger, I came out to about 12-13 and she was about 13, We are both level 13. I think the tables are too hit point dependent, but i guess that's why they have it set up 4:1. I think i preferred the old 2e tables that counted in things like intelligence, flight, magic resistance, etc.
(Reply to #8) shintashi	Xeviat-DM wrote:
#11 Xeviat-DM Jun 19, 2015 16:17:12	Of course I didn't look at spells, as I only really analyzed the Fighter (Champion and Battle Master), without magic items or feats.