The combatants:
Tuff Guy, Level 17 Mountain Dwarf Battlemaster (feat: Resiliance Wisdom);
Archer Guy, Level 11 Wood Elf Fighter (Champion), Level 6 Sorcerer (feats: Sharpshooter, Resiliance Wisdom);
Morindin, Level 17 High Elf Abjurer Wizard (feat: Resiliance Consitition);
Druss, Level 17 Hill Dwarf War Cleric (feat: Resiliance Consitition);
The enemy:
One Adult Dracolich (Blue)
One Adult Black Dragon
The battlefield:
A 240ft x 240ft x 240ft arena, with scattered crates around the grounds, and a deep lake dug into the middle.
The players:
A friend of mine was controlling the Dragons, I was controlling the four players.
The system:
We did this in roll20.
How it went:
Initiative: Tuff Guy, Draco Lich, Black Dragon, the rest of the party.
Round 1.
· Tuff guy moves away from the rest of the party, and shoots his bow at the flying black Dragon with a menacing strike. The Dragon makes its save.
· Black Dragon flies up and breathes doing 61 lightning damage to both Druss and Archer, neither make their save.
· Dracolich flies up and does 51 damage to both Druss and Archer, neither make their save.
· Archer is seriously wounded, Druss is bloodied. It then dives into the lake going underwater.
· Morindin casts wall of force around the black dragon, trapping it there, he then scurries off to hide in some crates.
· Archer casts haste on himself then goes and scurries off to hide in some crates, spreading out.
· Druss casts mass heal to restore himself and archer back to full hitpoints, before slowly running towards the nearest cover.
Round 2.
· Tuff Guy scrambles to some cover nearby and readiest an action to shoot at the Dragon under the lake when it appears.
· The black dragon in the wall of force uses its frightening presance. Everybody makes their save.
· The dracolich lurks under the water somewhere.
· Morindin casts blink on himself
· Archer readies an action to shoot the dracolich when it emerges from the water.
· Druss casts bless on the party then moves into cover around some crates.
Round 3.
· Tuff guy readies an action to shoot at the dracolich when it emerges from the water.
· The black dragon twiddles its thumbs in the wall of force.
· The dracolich emerges from the water with a massive roar.
· ...Tuff Guy attacks with his bow using menacing strike and hits for 7 damage, the dracolich saves. He then attacks again using menacing strike and hits for 2 damage, the dracolich fails its save but choses to use a legendary save to pass. He then shoots once more and misses.
· Archer guy's reaction kicks in, and he launches a barrage of arrows towards the dracolich, hitting three times for a total of 31 damage.
· The dracolich then continues out of the water and lands on top of the crates protecting Druss and Archer Guy, he roars and uses his frightful presence, but everyone except Morindin save. Morindin is now frightened. He then lashes out with a bite and a claw against Archer Guy doing 29 damage, and a claw against Druss doing 4 damage. Both Druss and Archer Guy pass their concentration checks to maintain their spells.
· Morindin blinks back into the prime material plane and casts disintegrate as an 8th level spell on the dracolich, doing 108 force damage. It rolls its saving throw though and takes 54 force damage. Morindin then blinks back into the ethereal plane.
· The dracolich uses a legendary action to wing buffet both Druss and Archer Guy, who both fail their saves and take 9 damage. They both pass their concentration checks to maintain their spells. The dracolich launches up in the air towards Morindin.
· Archer Guy takes aim and launches another barrage of attacks towards the dracolich, doing 22 damage.
· Druss summons a 5th level Spiritual Weapon, which hits the dracolich for 25 force damage, while he manoeuvres into position since his cover was destroyed.
Round 4.
· Tuff Guy shoots his longbow at the dracolich, missing each time, then runs towards it.
· Black Dragon twiddles his thumbs in the wall of force.
· Dracolich dives into the water and readies an attack against the pesky Wizard when he blinks back into the material plane.
· Morindin blinks back and the dracolich attacks, but due to foresight and shield, misses all of his attacks against Morindin.
· Morindin then casts mirror image, retreats a little, and blinks back into the ethereal plane.
· Archer Guy launches a massive barrage of attacks using sharpshooter, but two miss and he does 38 damage. The Dracolich is now starting to look weak and tired.
· Druss launches an attack with the spiritual weapon for another 25 damage, which slays the Dracolich, and then he readies an action to cast calm emotions on Morindin when he pops back into existence.
Round 5.
· Tuff Guy readiest an action to attack the Black dragon when the force wall is dropped.
· The black dragon readies an action to land next to Morindin when the force wall is dropped.
· Morindin blinks back...
o Druss then casts calm emotions on him with his reaction…
o Morindin drops the wall of force….
o The black dragon lands next to him…
o Tough Guy gets his attacks off with his bow, the final one hits, he uses goading attack for 11 damage, and the black dragon uses a legendary save to pass.
o Archer Guy launches a barrage of sharpshooter arrows at the Dragon for a massive 81 damage.
o Morindin then finally finishes his turn, and casts a 7th level Disintegrate at the dragon, doing 82 damage, but the dragon uses a legendary save to pass.
· Archer Guy then has his turn, and uses an action surge to launch a huge barrage of sharpshooting arrows at the Dragon, critting once, hitting 7 times, and doing a massive 111 damage, killing the Dragon dead.
Even though the combat was rated "Hard", I went in there thinking I was going to get my butt kicked. I did roll well with fear saving throws, but at the same time, the Cleric could have spammed Calm Emotions to get rid of fear pretty easily.
We had some debate afterwards whether or not you could wall of force a Dragon that size, but based on the wording of Wall of Force (which explicitly uses the term 'Spaces'), and the rules on Creature Size & 'Spaces' in the PHB, we determined that you could. Whether you want to DM that in your own games though is up to you.
I *really* love a high level Abjurer. With Arcane Mastery on Shield and his Abjurerers Shield, he is quite a pain to try and kill. I also really love foresight as a 9th level spell, as you get a lot of use out of it. Got lucky as well with Blink rolls, but I am thinking a Diviner and Blink could go well together.
Sharpshooter + Bless + Haste = Wow.
Poor melee fighter couldn't do much, but at least as a Battlemaster I could try and make the Dragon waste legendary saving throws.
Resiliance feats are pretty much a must have for me.
Devilbass wrote:
The Dracolich should have come back to life due to the Black Dragons Corpse.
So, aside from arguments about wall of force/forcecage and creature space/size (which is a DM issue)...
1) Neither dragon seems to use their legendary actions in the first round? Perhaps they were out of range, but considering Dragons move faster than PCs, they should be able to control the ranges better than this (they can breathe from 90' and move total in a turn 120' with a Wing Attack, even if they don't have targets). Its surprising they don't get in and tail swipe after the breath weapon, at the very least.
2) In the 2nd round, the dracolich just does... nothing and lets the party buff in safety? Seriously?
3) In the 3rd round, the Dracolich then didn't focus fire, throwing a random attack at the most durable character in the party instead of continuing to hit the archer, for some reason?
4) Disintegrate doesn't do half damage on a save, so that's 54 free damage?
5) On round 4, instead of say... killing the archer, the dracolich switches targets to the wizard, runs away someplace the archer can still hit him? Again, it fails to use its legendary actions.
So basically, by the time the black dragon has returned, the two dragons together have literally failed to take or wasted (attacking the wizard and cleric) something like 14 attacks (2 tails round 1, claw/claw/bite + tail + wings round 2, random claw on the Cleric round 3, no tail on round 3, claw/claw/bite on the wizard round 4, and another tail swipe and wing buffet on round 4). Thats over 200 damage, pre defenses, that could have been placed on the archer, which I would assume is more than enough to kill it. Considering that the archer does most of the damage in the encounter, that would probably be somewhat relevant!
This isn't to say the party couldn't win, or that they shouldn't (17th level play is obviously pretty close to the height of PC power, and while the XP qualifies, these are equal level or lower crittters) but it doesn't sound like the dragons were played with even remote attention to their abilities or the tactics they should be using. I think if they were played better, they'd make a bigger dent. Obviously wall of force working that way basically reduces your two-critter encounter to a 1 critter encounter as well, so its fairly biased. If the dragons had spellcaster variant to be able to escape it (or any other spell was used), things would obviously be a lot harder.
Why did the black dragon do lightning damage? And why didn't the dragon use legendary actions after the other dragon went? They are able to take legendary actions after any other creature's turns, including their allies.
danyc wrote:
Add a legendary action: recharge breath weapon.
DaveDash wrote:
Why are the dragons on opposite ends? The battle should be the PCs on one end and the dragons on the other end, like a chess board.
And every character has a 20+ AC? That's impressive, and speaks to the obvious min/maxing toward combat. That the PCs excel in combat isn't surprising. Don't the dragons have a +15 or so to hit? Even if they only hit half the time, that's still a lot of damage from 3-4 attacks per turn. So the PCs are geared toward combat... how are they at swimming? Why didn't the black dragon grab one of the PCs and drag them kicking and screaming into the lake to kill them one on one? Metal armor and a lake don't mix very well. Was it a legendary dragon that can affect its environment?
Seems the dragons died in 5 rounds because A) they weren't used properly (their legendary actions weren't used correctly) and B) they acted well below their intelligence level. The CR of a creature is only valid if the creature is used as effectively as the players use their characters. I mean, would your group be as effective if they only made half of their attacks, started on opposite ends of the map, and didn't make use of their environment?
With resilient +bless the concentration on wall of force is somewhere automatic.
There is also no save on wall of force.
Meaning that encounter with two Monsters , are reduced to two encounters in a row.
So the combat is a cr 17 , then a cr 14. Meaning a standard fight ( assured win) then an easy figth (assured boring).
Maybe try out 2 or even 3 young red dragon instead of one adult black.
that would make a better fight.
Wall of force is useless.. it is a wall the Dragon can fly over A huge Dragon takes up a 15X15X15 space while the spell is 10x10x10 which means larger creatures are punted out of it
What adds to these creatures deadlyness is their environment which they have been taken out of.
Again we fallback in the lawyer mode of DnD.
Can a huge dragon fit in a 10 feets radius sphere?
Objection mr judge, the dragon use its reaction to span its wings and cover more than the sphere breaking the spell as it is casted!
Sometime I think we will miss 4 ed!
Now, when you say "Barrage of arrows" do you mean "Attack+Extra Attack+Extra Attack+Haste+Sharpshooter?" Just wondering where things like 81 come from (other than you just not saying when critical hits happen maybe?). Also...how did he cast Haste on himself, exactly? Haste is a level 5 spell, but he's a 6th level sorcerer...
And yes, as others mentioned, Wall of Force is iffy, disintegrate is Save or Suck NOT Save or Half, the usage of Legendary Actions was poor (and apparently completely misinterpreted by both of you), along with a dragon sitting down doing squat for an entire round because reasons.
That being said! Sounded pretty fun!
How to run dragons into melee:
Fly by attacks (remember, they have reach!)
Or the ol' Land+Tear them to pieces+Wing Buffet to escape a mega melee character's reach after the next person goes (assuming that's not the mega melee person!)
It's hard to do the traditional Breathe Weapon strafe when you have such potent ranged folks, but this method can tear people apart, including the battlemaster, if used well enough.
Slight thread derailment, but know what would be useful? "Guides" to various monsters like the character class guides people write. For DMs it would be useful to have a Big Book of Battle Tactics for various monsters, from kobolds to dragons. I've learned a bunch of ideas just from this thread of how to use dragons more effectively.
frbelanger wrote:
Elfcrusher wrote:
iserith wrote:
Elfcrusher wrote:
DaveDash wrote:
Wall of force wouldn't, but Force Cage would encase the dragon since it can be 20ft on a side. The spell is a bit problematic as it bypasses legendary saves.
DaveDash wrote:
Orethalion wrote:
You can only use one legendary action per turn. At the end of another's TURN.
Not round, TURN.
Some of you are confused over that fact, and the fact that many attacks were REACTIONS.
We understand legendary actions just fine.
He may have missed a couple but 2d8+6 is quite irrelevant in the grand scheme of this fight (not enough to kill Archer round 1).
I think a factor that is being overlooked is that, according to the MM, a level 17 Adult Dracolich is a CR 17 creature. So a Dracolich with a -3 CR "minion" is essentially the same as one Orc and a Kobold fighting a party of four level 1 PCs. 5 rounds doesn't seem that bad in perspective. They did blow a lot of spells before the second encounter of the adventuring day.
zgrose wrote:
DaveDash wrote:
If both Dragons expended their wing attack to launch next to the Archer, they'd be stuck there the entire round. They have a good chance of missing their tail swipes due to the shield spell (24AC). They may drop him with a few good rolls, but guess what, he's back up standing anyway due to Mass Heal and the Dragons are now stuck on the ground. Tuff Guy runs up and does 100+ damage with an action surge and the encounter is over sooner.
danyc wrote:
Bloodscythe wrote:
Orethalion wrote:
DaveDash wrote:
A huge is a 15x15 creature while the sphere wall is 10ft radius, or 20ft across. So yeah, it can hold a huge creature.
The problem isn't the size ruling, it's that a 5th level spell can take out a legendary creature. There's a few spells that mechanically are a bit wonky with how they interact with legendary resistance, in that they bypass it completely. At least wall of force is concentration, but force cage has the same problem and it isn't.
DaveDash wrote:
Dracones wrote:
Orethalion wrote:
Bloodscythe wrote:
DaveDash wrote:
DaveDash wrote:
danyc wrote:
Orethalion wrote:
DaveDash wrote:
Slyck314 wrote:
Can't the Dragon burrow underneath the wall? I would imagine the first use of the spell the player would not think to make it a sphere but rather a dome...
DaveDash wrote:
It should be noted that end of another creatures turn includes the Dragon. It can use a Legendary action when it's turn ends by default.
DaveDash wrote:
DaveDash wrote:
MonsterEnvy wrote:
I still don't think Wall of Force should have worked. It's shpere takes up a 10 by 10 space and it should not be able to trap the the 15 by 15 dragon even if the Dragon does not competely fill out that space. It would not work on a Giant given that the smallest of them is 16 ft tall and an Adult dragon should at least be around that size.
MonsterEnvy wrote:
danyc wrote:
Dracones wrote:
Quasadu wrote:
I think the sphere option of the spell should be scrapped. The spell is good enough without that option. The prison is what forcegace is for.
But RAW, the dragon could fit in or not, depending on how you allow the push to one side to work. I can easily squeeze the dragon a bit to fit inside. ;)
DaveDash wrote:
I lobbied for the tail attack to target multiple foes in Alpha testing. That would have helped a little.
Playtest also had breath weapon recharge as Legendary action. That should have been kept.
Here's the actual maths (minus crit maths because I am lazy) for legendary action tradeoff.
First scenario: Dragon stays out of Tuff Guy's melee range and uses Bite, Tail, then Wing to get out of dodge.
Archer Guy has 19AC base, 21AC with Haste, and 26AC with shield. The Dracolich has a +12 attack bonus.
Using shield, the Dracolich only has 35% chance of hitting Archer with melee attacks.
Archer with Bless has +7 dex saving throw vs DC21, so he will save 35% of the time.
Average damage over the course of one round:
Bite + Tail + Wing: 14 damage per round plus 9 damage = 21 damage for the round.
Meanwhile by coming within range of Tough Guys thrown weapons by doing this..
Dracolich AC 19, Tuff Guy has +13 attack bonus including Bless
Tuff Guy hits 75% of the time (even more if he spends superiority dice on gaining advantage). He can throw four hand axes as a reaction for 25.5 damage.
Using this tactic, Tuff guy reduces the Dragon's hitpoints by about 11%, the Dragon reduces Archer guy's hitpoints by about 14%, and reduces overall party hitpoints by about 3%.
Not such a smart tactic.
If he decides to use claws to full attack Archer:
Average damage over the course of one round:
Bite + Tail + Claw + Claw + Wing: 23 damage from melee attacks plus 9 damage from failed save = 32 damage for the round, or roughly 21% of Archer Guy's hitpoints total.
Tuff guy gets to attack with Greatsword for an average damage of 36 damage for the round (again, likely more by using superiority dice), which is 16% of Dragons hitpoint total.
Given the party has acccess to a much larger total HP pool and healing, this is a seriously bad tradeoff for the Dracolich.
The dragon could improve his damage potential by using a reaction to full attack after he did a wing attack, so move within 10ft & reaction -> wing attack & full attack with advantage -> tail attack. That's actually probably the most optimal damage pattern for the Dragon, but he is going to be within range of an action surge if he does that, since I'd allow the Fighter an DC16 Athletics (10+2 per 1ft over his limit) check to jump the 10ft required to reach the Dracolich (or within 5ft if he uses claws, no jump required).
Trading damage for damage is not in the Dragons best interest. As someone else has mentioned, using grapple and pulling PC's under the water one at a time is probably the 'smart' thing to do in this scenario.
Rhenny wrote:
danyc wrote:
Dracones wrote:
DaveDash wrote:
Quasadu wrote:
DaveDash wrote:
danyc wrote:
danyc wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
I think DaveDash's dragon experiment is interesting and certainly should not be condemned by the community.
I don't think the op is bragging. It is just a combat encounter run in a particular way. Of course, other people can run the same or different encounters differently, changing the results, but the detail DaveDash provides shows one example of a higher level encounter. I wish more people would post these.
Let's encourage our community members, not discourage them.
And, yes. It has shown that Wall of Force may be problematic for some.
Shasarak wrote:
Shasarak wrote:
MonsterEnvy wrote:
DaveDash wrote:
danyc wrote:
Rhenny wrote:
You could throw out the recharge and let dragons breathe fire at will. Try that for dangerous.
a 10' radius (20' diameter) sphere can hold a 11.5' cube.
(more specificly 20 / √3).
So wall of force can snag a large creatures, but not huge creature. You need force cage for huge creature.
(Geometry FTW!)
DaveDash wrote:
What is wrong with a level 17 party defeating 2 adult dragons in 5 rounds? Heck I would hope that by level 17 they can kill a lot more of them.
dmgorgon wrote:
DaveDash wrote:
dmgorgon wrote:
Slyck314 wrote:
FFSAA wrote:
Elfcrusher wrote:
FFSAA wrote:
mellored wrote:
Know what would be fun/useful/cool? A Play-by-Post arena death match. So, for example, you could set up this very encounter...same PCs, same monsters...and you queue as either DM or Player, get assigned a random opponent, and then play turn-based (i.e., you get an email when it's your move and you have some time limit to respond). A built in dice roller keeps a log of all rolls.
Would also need human referees, to avoid having to build the entire ruleset into a website. Or maybe you just press a button when there's a dispute, and 3 humans get randomly assigned to judge the case.
All completed battles would get stored, so observers could look at all the different outcomes and see how tactics and luck with the dice affected the results.
Some of the PbP sites (rpol.net, myth-weavers.com) could be used for this, although you'd need a grid, too.
Elfcrusher wrote:
I'm going to say that this thread has been very informative and a boon to anyone wanting to learn the game. There's no need to patronize or belittle or insult. The players used great tactical decisions. Perhaps the people involved in the combat test were experienced players. The dragons did not make great tactical decisions. Perhaps the people involved are not experienced DMs or are not experienced using dragons in combat.
I'm with Elfcrusher and DMgorgon on this. There is nothing wrong with a party of lvl 17s killing a dragon and a dracolich, especially given the sound use of Wall of Force. The issues that arise for me are the extremely poor tactical decisions made by the dragons. They are highly intelligent and very old. They should be fairly competent and use a range of tactics that include cooperative efforts to take down one target at a time, using terrain and environment to their advantage, and possibly even separating the group into smaller more managable components, like grappling and flying away with one of the party whle the rest of the party watches helplessly. Now the grappled party member will get some attacks in on the dragon, and possibly break out of the grapple at some point, but a dragon has the advantage of flight. It will use that advantage in a fight. It would definitely take advantage of flight in combat taking place with a wide open sky above.
The purpose of this thread, and the forum in general, is to promote thought, not stiffle it. Please continue posting your combat scenarios. People will learn new player tactics from what is described and new monster tactics also, either from the initial post or from the responses to the post.
With regard to telling an art major to change majors if they present a crayon drawing to me... Art is subjective. It's entirely possible that crayon drawing is the work of genius and I just don't see it.
Wuzzard wrote:
Bloodscythe wrote:
Elfcrusher wrote:
Bloodscythe wrote:
FFSAA wrote:
The CR matches the party level, I would think the general feeling would be that CR parity should be a standard encounter or else we get the howls of "CR is useless." Whether used poorly or not, a 17th level party is supposed to chew up CR 17 monsters as a matter of course. That's high-end play. Craft a CR1 orc with Legendary actions and it should be tougher than other CR1 creatures but should still be defeated by a first level party.
FFSAA wrote:
Orethalion wrote:
Bloodscythe wrote:
Elfcrusher wrote:
Bloodscythe wrote:
Bloodscythe wrote:
Karnos wrote:
I think I'm going to go with the ruling if it cant fit in the sphere it gets pushed outside. Otherwise you end up with arguments over squeezing things in etc.
I never though of diagonals to be honest. We used an aura in roll20 to show radius, but that's actually flawed since it expands 10ft out from a square, not a point.
Karnos wrote:
zgrose wrote:
Dracones wrote:
In order to "streamline" encounters though they have trimmed a lot of monster abilities and this has had a direct impact on CR.
I can tell you from experience that spellcaster monsters of equal CR pose a much greater challenge than non-spellcaster monsters.
If I replaced that black dragon with two CR9 Demons with damage and spell resistance, darkness, and power word stun, that encounter would have been WAY more difficult.
There is also the issue that fighting equal or higher CR monsters gives the party WAY too much XP. I've had my group almost level after a single session from 11. Example running CoTSQ conversion as is, the party can still manage encounters back like they were in 3.5 (less higher CR monsters) but gain XP at a ridiculous rate.
On the other hand, large groups of a mix of monsters of low CR and mid CR are definitely the most challenging in my experience so far. I've had to complete abandon the 3.5 method of encounters to get it to "work" in 5e.
Solo "legendary" monsters in 3.5 and earlier were scary. They didn't require good terrain or DM skill as much to help them. Combats on the other hand were arduous to run. So here we are.
^ Still complaining about lack of complexity/abilities/spellcasting on the monsters... after posting about monsters with a spellcaster variant right in the freaking book.
I don't even.
danyc wrote:
danyc wrote:
danyc wrote:
Rhenny wrote:
How about you post some examples from your table that are to the contrary, instead of "You're doing it wrong! And you're wrong!".
And just for the record, 5e is much more *fun* for me than any other edition. I'm highlighting however some gotchas from my experience.
Bloodscythe wrote:
DaveDash wrote:
FFSAA wrote:
danyc wrote:
danyc wrote:
FFSAA wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Here's the thing tho, you can make almost any encounter deadly by throwing in terrain features.
Like having the dragons lair at the bottom of a massive 300ft hole, in an anti magic field, suddenly makes for a very hard encounter.
What I find useful though, and this is the whole reason we do these arena fights, is how these monsters stand up on their own. Kind of like a control sample.
DaveDash wrote:
DaveDash wrote:
Bloodscythe wrote:
Karnos wrote:
DaveDash wrote:
Shasarak wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
If that abjurer had cast foresight on the archer instead of himself, this fight could've been over before it started.
FFSAA wrote:
Rhenny wrote:
dmgorgon wrote:
Did anyone count the number of lvl 5-9 spells the guy used.
Wall of Force (wizard) lvl 5
Mass Heal lvl 5(cleric)
Blink (wizard) lvl 3
bless (cleric) lvl 1
Disintegrate lvl 8 (wizard)
level 5 spiritual weapon (cleric)
Foresight (lvl 9 spell cleric prebuffed the wizard with it I'm assuming)
shield (lvl 1)
Mirror image (lvl 2)
7th level disintergrate)
The wizard used 1 of his only 2 level 5 spells, his only level 7 spell and his only level 8 spell. He now has 1 level 5 spell, 1 level 6 spell and 1 lvl 9 spell left for the day.
The cleric used all his level 5 spells and his only level 9 spell for the day. He is left with a single lvl 6 a single lvl 7 and a single lvl 8 spell.
Couple this with the fact that disintegrate was used wrong and did about 50 damage more than it should have and that spiritual weapon was used wrong as well (25 dmg is impossible to do with a lvl 5 spiritual weapon) The 2 attacks made should have combined for average of 30ish damage instead of 50ish.
In other words the guy burned through a little over half his parties higher level spells (and some lower level ones) and handed out about 70 free damage to the first dragon. It's no wonder he thought the fight was easy. I'd say the fight was a success on the DM's part if half of the highest level spells were burned up (proabably would have been more if not for that 70 free damage the first dragon took).
Spiritual Weapn:
You create a floating, spectral weapon within range that lasts for the duration or until you cast this spell again. When you cast the spell, you can make a melee spell attack against a creature within 5 feet o f the weapon. On a hit, the target takes force damage equal to 1d8 + your spellcasting ability modifier.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot o f 3rd level or higher, the damage increases by 1d8 for every two slot levels above the 2nd.
So a level 5 Spiritual weapon would do 2d8+5 damage at most. (MAX non crit damage is 21). As opposed to the OP cited 25 damage both times he attacked with it.
Wall of force creates a 20 foot diameter SPHERE. I'm not sure if a 15ft by 15ft by 15ft cube can fit inside a 20 ft diameter sphere but I can understand thinking it possible without calculating it to be sure.
DaveDash wrote:
DaveDash wrote:
Orethalion wrote:
Elfcrusher wrote:
danyc wrote:
FFSAA wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
FrogReaver wrote:
dmgorgon wrote:
Shasarak wrote:
FrogReaver wrote:
dmgorgon wrote:
I would only apply the term legendary to creatures that are actually......legendary. The Tarrasque is the one PHB example that I can think of. There are legends about it and what it can do. Dragons? Not so much. Kobolds? Absolutely not.
Legendary as 5e uses it is a metagame term meant for the DM, not an in-game term.
Orethalion wrote:
Wuzzard wrote:
The limit of 1 attack when using a readied action to attack comes from the wording of Extra Attack, which specifies "when you take the Attack action on your turn."
Weeeeell 4 PCs level 17 are legendary themselves. They should beat 2 dragons fresh after a long rest.
I think wall of force sphere should have been 5' radius, not 10' radius, it's a bit too good vs non-casters.
Or legendary actions should allow a monster to make a save, when a spell doesnt normally allow one. That would have given the second dragon a chance at least. I might make that a houserule.
As other posters have indicated, I also dont like the term legendary. I prefer going back to "solo", although that obviously doesnt fully cover it either.
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
A 10' radius sphere can only hold an 11.5' sided cube.
Psikerlord wrote:
T
FrogReaver wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
FFSAA wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Dracones wrote:
Dracones wrote:
I'm pretty sure that the rules mean an attack action as a reaction. That would mean as many attacks as the character can make for his/her attack action.
I don't see a need to penalize anyone for readying the action. If the trigger is not met, the player will skip a turn. That's penalty enough.
Rhenny wrote:
Dracones wrote:
Yeah you're actually penalized for readying spells as they require concentration. So readying magic missile breaks existing concentration.
I've found this very limiting in combat on casters actually, since you always have one good concentration spell running.
I believe this is not an error for martials either, the designers probably wanted to limit out of turn actions to like an opportunity attack.
FFSAA wrote:
Wuzzard wrote:
I would have imagined that if I was readying an action to attack, then when the time came for me to attack then it would be "my turn" which would allow me to multi attack.
Shasarak wrote:
Orethalion wrote:
Shasarak wrote:
Wuzzard wrote:
My apologies if this has already been mentioned, but I noticed a few errors in your battle.
DaveDash wrote:
FFSAA wrote:
Kalani wrote:
Wuzzard wrote:
Orethalion wrote:
DaveDash wrote:
Wuzzard wrote:
FrogReaver wrote:
FFSAA wrote:
DaveDash wrote:
vonklaude wrote:
DaveDash wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
DaveDash wrote:
vonklaude wrote:
Talking about forcecage as a 10' radius sphere and the dragon taking up 15' cube, I don't think they actually fit, even by strict definitions of spaces.
Am I doing something wrong here?
RCanine wrote:
Wuzzard wrote:
dmgorgon wrote:
dmgorgon wrote:
dmgorgon wrote:
DaveDash wrote:
FFSAA wrote:
dmgorgon wrote:
FFSAA wrote:
Rhenny wrote:
Kalani wrote: