Combat Processing: Then & Now

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

kill_the_wiz_first

Jul 15, 2014 15:34:31

Short history: I racked up hundreds of hours of play from the early 80's to the mid 90's. Sessions were as frequent as every weekend and a few as once every three months. We played anywhere, reckroom, in the car, but mostly camping in a state forest (Mecosta county, Michigan). Women hated that because there's no bathroom. I loved first edition and enjoyed second edition, somehow, even more.

 

For me the big change in gaming was subtle and revolves around a simple concept: Strategy. I say subtle because processing dangerous scenes (combat, or generally treacherous circumstances that required turns/rounds/segments) became a tactical one. The change somehow flew right over my head as continued to play (mid 90's by now). 3rd edition official adopted the process and it has been gone, as far as I know, since.

 

So what am talking about? When you declare your actions.

 

Announcing your actions before initiative brings a sense of group unity that is long since missing and, now, it feels more like each player is their own Sports Superstar as they decide to play their role based on prior actions. Each player declaring what they will do before each round brings strategy back into the game.

 

Then: I will watch Rogar and see if he needs to be healed. {before round/initiative}

Now: I heal Rogar. {on player's turn}

 

How to approach this can go either way with any-one-person so, while I do have more to add, I suppose I'll check the community reaction first. It is what it is, now. Maybe later I'll describe why I think declaring actions prior to a round can be fun but trying to keep this thread as neutral as possible right now. I'll get all amped up later. ~laughs~

#2

spelley

Jul 15, 2014 16:14:49

This is an interesting way of handling things. Should be a playstyle mentioned in the DMG or something. Might play around with this myself at some point, thanks for bringing this playstyle to my attention

#3

Uskglass

Jul 15, 2014 16:37:14

Very interesting thoughs. Indeed declaring before the round starts brings up strategic thinking, while declaring on the turn brings up tactical thinking. Both are compelling ways to play to explore, but it's true that most games nowadays lean towards the latter, so it'd be good to do somehting the other way.

 

By the way, I can't even remember declaring before the round in 1e/2e. Only thing I know for sure is that, prior to 3e, we were rolling each round for initiative. But I'm getting old so it could be just memory failing me.

#4

docdoom77

Jul 15, 2014 17:20:03

I don't love it, but I understand why people do.  As long as there is some provision for changing your action if it becomes invalid (like your target dies), even at a penalty, I wouldn't hate it though.  

 

You won't see it at my table, but I certainly wouldn't bow out if it was the rule at someone else's.

#5

kill_the_wiz_first

Jul 15, 2014 18:02:41

Taken from OSRIC being it functions identically to the 1st Edition DMG (and I don't have type as much! lol)

 

1) Surprise [...]

 

2) Declare Spells and General actions: Before the two sides
roll initiative, spell casters must state what spells (if any) they
will be casting in that round. As the round proceeds, the spell
caster may elect not to cast the spell, but may not substitute
another action. This is simply because the mental preparations
for casting a spell are so arduous that the caster cannot switch
focus quickly enough to change actions. Non-spell casters
should also tell the GM, in general terms, what they will be
doing: “attacking with a sword,” “using my bow,” “climbing
the wall,” etc.
Before the players do this, the GM should already have formed
a similar outline of the monsters’ strategy; the GM should not
base the monsters’ actions on what he or she already knows
the players will be doing.

 

3. Determine Initiative [...]

 

[and so on]

#6

MechaPilot

Jul 15, 2014 18:12:31

kill_the_wiz_first wrote:
(Reply to #6)

Shiroiken

MechaPilot wrote:
#8

MechaPilot

Jul 15, 2014 20:03:39

Shiroiken wrote:
#9

ankiyavon

Jul 15, 2014 20:13:40

MechaPilot wrote:
#10

Saelorn

Jul 15, 2014 20:28:06

Shiroiken wrote:
#11

MechaPilot

Jul 15, 2014 20:30:40

ankiyavon wrote:
#12

Haytam

Jul 16, 2014 0:37:36

Declare before initiative was also in oWoD and I personaly hated it. Even in 2ed AD&D we changed it from declare first to act on your turn. Like some people already said,problem in declare first is that sometimes your action isn't viable by the time you get to act. Also,vague and general descriptions of what you do are mood kill for me. I like more fleshed out,precise descriptions of what characters do in combat. But i can understand the apeal of this for some people. In the end,there is no wrong way to play as long as everybody is having fun

#13

edwin_su

Jul 16, 2014 3:06:59

Haytam wrote:
#14

Kazadvorn

Jul 16, 2014 3:36:33

This does jog my memory... that was the procedure back in the before-before days at alot of tables. The concept was that given a 6 second round, everything was happening more or less at the same time, and initiative really just represented the 'micro order' of basically simultaneous events.

 

I can remember situations where both parties were charging each other, and the DM would decide that they more or less met in the middle - rather than have one group or individual moving all the way across a room, and then having a member of the other party moving all the way across the room - passing each other without ever contacting each other.

#15

Noon

Jul 16, 2014 3:54:46

I remember trying one of those 'declare your action from lowest to highest, then we do highest to lowest'

 

It was one of the worst book keeping to actual result ratios ever. Pretty much exactly the same as one person after the other, with the tiny difference (or even a chance of a difference) requiring alot of tracking to get.

#16

edwin_su

Jul 16, 2014 4:44:56

Noon wrote:
#17

Emerikol.

Jul 16, 2014 5:03:45

I think the reason this rule was in place was mainly for caster disruption.  The non magic classes could get away with pretty vague answers.  The casters had to announce their spell and that was the nub of it.  The reason all classes were involved in the process was that in theory anyone could be trying to cast a spell and/or use a magic item.    So it made sense.   If you were swinging your sword though you were rarely hindered that much on choice of targets etc...   At least that is my take.

#18

kill_the_wiz_first

Jul 16, 2014 6:45:17

All appreciated viewpoints and I'll not disparage a single one. It's not in the game, the mindset of modern gaming, nor part of the guides, plus it would be incredible difficult to incorporate into the current system because of how it works (reaction, bonus action, length of rounds {not a minute in duration}, and spellcasting is much different). Mostly wanted to hear from everyone. =)

 

Declaring before the round can really set in motion interesting events that may never of happened and allows the players to work out details as the scene unfolds because of aderence to the plan of attack. For our group it very important because we played a game that all effects could affect the player even if the source was from an ally. So if the magic user was casting a fireball at a group of gnolls the others knew not to go fight the gnolls the caster indicated, else they were scorched too. The melee fighters knew not to stand in the way of the ranged, else they get an arrow to the back. Disruptions were potential for casters and so many more elements came into the combat cycles that just don't arise in modern games.

 

Anyways, I'm not right and you're not wrong so I'd like to hear more feedback. ~cheers~