Does anyone know if there are plans to add a conjure fiend spell? Maybe in Out of the abyss? You can summon every other type of extraplanar. (Except aberration, but they are aberrations for a reason).
It should be a level one spell because they want to be summoned to trick and trap humans by bargaining for their souls. Sure it seems like the wizard has control, but sooner or later an offer for more power will be offered at a reasonable cost.
arnwolf666 wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
arnwolf666 wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
Might be able to summon one without a spell but a spellcould allow some degree of control over it.
Might be able to summon one without a spell but a spell could allow some degree of control over it.
For summoned allies we would need a module about monster pets and allies.
Another option is to summon "anti-hero" fiends, in my setting sometimes some infernal outsiders are like ones from the background of "Demon: the fallen" or "Demon: the Descent". Maybe you could summon the "good fiends", the hellseed from Fiendish Codex II (3.5 Ed). Other fool idea I have is to summon a brainless outsider like lemures and mane for a "simbiotic possesion" where the host has got the controll and freewill.
Planar ally can summon a fiend.
Besides that spell, I prefer to keep the summoning of fiends (and extraplanar aberrations) in the realm of special rituals with specific materials, words, and sometimes sacrifices so that such activities fit into the trope of battling against the cult while they fight to keep you from disrupting their summoning.
FabioBLK wrote:
They skipped having it in the "evil" section of the DMG and if they don't have it in the fiend (demon) centered Out of the Abyss AP, I will be forced to conclude that WotC has no plans to make a conjure fiend spell. "The wizard's conjured demon gets attacked by the LG paladin or cleric" problem is probably the source of the reluctance.
If conjure minor elementals (level 4 spell) gives you a CR 2 critter, then it seems logical to me that a level 3 spell should give you a CR 1 critter, a level 2 spell should give you a CR 1/2 critter, and a level 1 spell should give you a CR 1/4 critter. I would definitely base conjure fiend off of conjure elemental instead of conjure celestial. For one, conjuring fiends should be dangerous, and if you lose concentration, it should attack you. For another, maxing out at CR 9 is better than CR 5: thus far, fiends (like elementals) are basically combat machines--celestials get both combat and utlity so it seems appropriate that you have to use a higher spell to get that (although it should have capped at CR 6, not that we have any CR 6 celestials yet.....)
Hmmmm, maybe I should just make the spell myself. Planar Ally doesn't really ressemble any of the conjure spells.
Since the knock against Planar Ally ("DM picks the monster")* is now RAI for all conjure spells, PA doesn't require concentration, and has no CR limit (other than how much treasure you have on hand), I would argue that Planar Ally is now the best single-monster conjuring spell until gate is available. I suppose losing some xp if the summoned monster adventures with you and having to be a cleric or a bard (magical secrets) is too high a price for some, though......
* Has anyone actually seen firsthand** where the PC used planar ally and didn't get what they asked for, assuming they had the gold to pay for it? ****
**I don't care about your cousin's best friend's favorite pizza delivery guy's girlfriend's next door neighbor's kid brother's story said. I am pretty sure that kid is the source of all the "problems with alignment" stories since 1991, but no one can put a name to him......
*** No, Pelor does not think you need that +12 Sword of Overcompensating so badly that he will send a Solar FOR FREE to get it for you, on the off chance that you might donate a couple of gps to a widow or orphan, particularly since you have not bothered to do so thus far even though your bag of holding is practically bursting with loot, and has been despite you passing 12 widows and 2 orphages and not given a cp in alms to any of them (not to mention the fact that you set fire to one of the orphanages thinking, incorrectly, that they must have some loot hidden someplace, saying, I quote, "Who has ever heard of a poor orphanage? It is all a scam to hide all that money they make begging.").
You could always just make a conjure fiend spell that works just like conjure elemental, except that it conjures a fiend instead.
FallingIcicle wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
moonbeast wrote:
moonbeast wrote:
How about making a conjure fiends RITUAL available as a level 1 option? Grants no control, and if you're foolish enough to do it before you can cast Magic Circle then what follows is both predictable and karmic. After all, how many stories are there where the apprentice summons a fiend well beyond his abilities, loses control, shenanegans ensue?
For a more traditional combat summoning, I'd agree with the above suggestion of just reflavoring Conjure Celestrial.
Level 2 Inexperienced Dipstick Wizard attempting to conjure a fiend.
Result = 22 resident mages and apprentices in the Wizard's Academy are slaughtered.
(artist = Ralph Horseley, one of my favorite D&D illustrators)
Another option is to use monster allies like extra PCs, with the right XPs reward distribution. Then the players could kill more monsters, but the leveling up wouldn´t be faster.
Other idea is to use little animals to be host of weaker outsiders like lemures and manes...(oh! That would be a very bizarre pokemon-like creature), or little humanoids like goblins, halflings or gnomes (what!?), spending XPs for leveling up the "graft/simbiot/legacy item"
* (The picture is cool, but it is from Warhammer Fantasy).
You need to distinguish between:
- the guy who finds some kind of dark altar, tome etc. and strikes a bargain for power etc. (i.e. becomes a Warlock)
- the guy who perhaps bargains for a (corrupted) Wish of some kind
- the guy who has arcane or divine power and wishes to cast the summon spell for temporary aid in a fight.
In the latter case this is the formula I would use to create summon fiend spells. It follows the pattern of the existing Summon Celestial spell.
- For Celestials/Fiends (& Undead) for conjure single being spells you add +1 to the spell level then half this for the CR (e.g. 7th + 1 = 8. 8 / 2 = CR 4):
- 1st level : 1 Fiend up to CR 1
- 3rd level : 1 Fiend up to CR 2
- 5th level : 1 Fiend up to CR 3
- 7th level : 1 Fiend up to CR 4
- 9th level : 1 Fiend up to CR 5
- For Celestials/Fiends (& Undead) for conjure multiple beings to reflect the power differential you add +1 to the spell level, then quarter this to get the starting CR. Then move sideways doubling number and halving CR each time:
- E.g. Conjure Minor Fiends 1st level spell
- 1 x CR ½, 2 x CR ¼, 4 x CR 1/8, 8 x CR 0
- E.g. 2 Conjure Minor Fiends 3rd level spell
- 1 x CR 1, 2 x CR ½, 4 x CR ¼, 8 x CR 1/8
- E.g. 3 Conjure Lesser Fiends 7th level spell
- 1 x CR 2, 2 x CR 1, 4 x CR ½, 8 x CR ¼
- E.g. Conjure Minor Fiends 1st level spell
I acknowledge there are options missing from the rules at the moment which look at rituals which might summon a Fiend for longer term support. This might include things similar to the old Cacodemon and Spiritwrack spells. Uses include demonic assassination or to burn out an offending town - also wardpacts (setting a Fiend to guard an area/item for eternity etc.). These might be best used outside of mainstream combat support and involve things such as payment of souls or other inherently evil costs.