Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 VanRicter Feb 23, 2015 21:43:49	I was wondering if anyone had devised a system for crafting potions/scrolls.  The DMG doesn't lay anything out and my caster players are interested in making some scrolls and potions.  Advice appreciated.
#2 Reius Feb 23, 2015 22:23:15	You want the item "Spell Scroll" on page 200. It outlines the rarities based on spell level, which can then be used with the crafting rules. I don't think potions are covered explicitly, but most would probably work similar to a scroll (some potions are also listed as magic items).
#3 FallingIcicle Feb 23, 2015 22:29:14	The DMG has rules for crafting magic items on p. 128-129.
#4 rampant Feb 23, 2015 22:43:11	Well break it down, what does a scroll let you do?   It lets anyone cast the spell, although it's always minimum level, and unless they are also a caster they don't get to add ability mods to it (although prof bonus applies, me personally I would have used Cha as a default casting stat and nixed  proficiency, but oh well). Additionally it doesn't count agaionst your perosnal spell casting for the day, and they can be stored for later, thus they can be sold/bought. In addition wizards hunt them because they can be used to permanently expand a wizard's spells known.    That's potent enough that you need to limit the creation somehow.    Now one method is to use the component/quest/formula garbage from the DMG (seriously guys if you aren't going to do a  good job don't print it, just say that crafitng is not something the game does yet, and come back with a real crafting system later, it doesn't even have to involve the dmg items, because a lot of them just aren't gonna fit into any crafting system worth printing).   Alternatively you could try to make feats or sub-classes that deal with such minor crafts.    For scrolls I would suggest a feat, the basic scroll simply doesn't lend itself well to being chopped up into pieces to be spread amongst a sub-class. Unless you want to have one sub-class cover multiple small items.   This feat would allow you to scribe scrolls of spells you know, which would admitteldy preclude most of the divine casters, but they're broken enough as it is. Now doing so costs the spell slot for the day, but  the spell slot returns normally, and the scroll mreamins functional afterwards. Additionally I would require paper, and writing implements, and each scroll requires an hour per level of the spell scribed. FInally I would stipulate that the scrolls form this feat are not sturdy, and will fade if seperated form their creator for more than a day or so, and that you can only have x levels of these scrolls scribed at once (x being some number that scales with level). You may create permanent scrolls, but those would cost money to craft, call it 15 gold per level to make. I'd rate the sell price as either the same, or maybe 20 per spell level, and buying a scroll from someone else would almost always be 30 per level or more, assuming you can even find one for sale.    That is of course a quick and dirty system, a more precise and balanced crafting system will take time.
#5 LuisCarlos17f Feb 24, 2015 1:08:46	I wish also we to can craft talismans, attuned gems, magic runes and tatoos, and relics(from the complete divine), and simbiotic crafts. (and all in the same sourcebook).     And contingent spells (because you never know when will know a feather fall).
(Reply to #5) arnwolf666	LuisCarlos17f wrote:
#7 PSusac Feb 24, 2015 11:48:09	Call me old-school, but my homebrew solution to this is that they are relatively easy to make BUT they require hard to obtain material components.  So a scroll requires gryphon feathers at low level and Vrock feathers at higher level to use as a quill and giant squid ink plus a rare component depending on the nature of the spell (a fireball scroll might require salamander blood for example).  Same goes for potions.  The knowledge to write a scroll comes with the knowledge of the spell - so no formula is required for a scroll, but a formula is needed for a potion or other one-shot magic item.   This allows the player to make a batch of fireball scrolls if she wants, but she needs to get the components together.  These components don't generally "keep" so they must be fresh, although a gentle repose spell might help.  In other words, it takes an adventure to make the items.
#8 Shasarak Feb 24, 2015 12:07:28	PSusac wrote:
#9 strider13x Feb 24, 2015 16:45:05	Do adventurers have the time it takes to craft such wonderous items? Old scholarly Wizards and great Clerics who create such things are locked away in towers for years to divine the formulas for such useful things as scrolls and potions.   With that said look at item creation rules. It would take almost a month and 50 gp to make a basic poison, so I would guess 3+ months to make a Fireball scroll plus 250 gp. And do they have the right place or stronghold to take that much time? Staying at the local inn won't do. While magic items do not have any listed gold value you can place one based on rarity. Be careful though, make sure they have enough down time and be fair to non-casters.
#10 Reius Feb 24, 2015 17:31:08	It looks like Basic Poison would take 20 days and 50gp. A level 3 Fireball Scroll should take 20 days and 500gp -- and it uses up a third-level spell slot each of those day. Full-plate takes 300 days and 750gp. While crafting items you can afford to maintain a modest lifestyle without having to pay.   Generally speaking, I doubt this stuff will be done in the middle of an adventure or a campaign. The PCs might pay somebody else to craft stuff while they're away -- but it still takes forever (ie, 200 days for a level 4 scroll, 2000 days for a level 6 scroll). I also think the prices by rarity on page 135 is borked for crafters because it makes it look like they are selling their wares at a loss. Those prices would only work for people who trade in found magic items, not people that craft their own for sale, IMO. Or, maybe NPC crafters just don't follow the same rules as PC crafters.
#11 VanRicter Feb 24, 2015 18:22:32	I guess I just have a hard time understanding how a wizard can transcribe a scroll of fireball into his spell book in 6 hours and 150g per the section "your spellbook" but it takes 20 days to craft a scroll of fireball from tomb to scroll using the DMG rules?    Futhermore to scibe from one spellbook to another would be 3 hours and 30g because you know the spell at that time.  I totally understand the desire to stop the 3rd edition abuse of every wizard with 30 scrolls of fireball but there has to be a happy medium.   We have been kicking around using the 3.5 charts for scroll/potion creation costs and crafting times, then affixing a level cap for maximum created equal to the casters total level in spell levels to help avoid the scrollcaddy problem.
#12 Coredump00 Feb 24, 2015 19:29:24	Putting a spell in a spellbook isn't much more than carefullly copying the spell.  Creating a scroll is imbuing the paper and ink with magic that can be released by reading the spell.
#13 Reius Feb 24, 2015 19:47:33	Think about it this way: if you don't already know the Fireball spell, it actually takes 20 days, 6 hours and 650gp to put it on to a scroll. When you're just copying a spell into your spellbook, you just have to decipher the writing and learn the techniques (which obviously takes time) but if you're crafting a scroll, you have to actually prime and mostly-cast the spell (including spending components and a spell slot everyday). You don't just copy it onto the scroll -- it's more complicated than that. Creating a scroll is like re-learning the spell and also involves research and experimentation to figure out how to ready the spell without it going off prematurely. Admittedly, if you've made lots of scrolls of the same spell-type, then you might be able to speed up the process (but that's not in the given rules).