Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 shintashi Aug 18, 2015 10:22:17	So i was looking at the new spell list release, and noticed the various schools of magic were still listed rather poorly, because for a wizard - the only one who cares what school of magic they can cast, they threw in the other class spells into the same kind of sorting, making the lists almost useless for wizards.   Well anyway, back in Spells & Magic, you used to be able to construct a wizard or cleric to take cleric or wizard spells, by taking on their school of sphere, typically for 5 or 10 points. This was particularly common where a theme crossed over. Such as a Fire Priest with Fireball, or a Good Aligned Necromancer who could raise the dead, not just make zombies.   So i got to thinking how could we introduce something like that into 5e?   Well, the Feats in 5e are pretty robust, and you lose attribute bonuses to get them, and they are extremely small in number compared to the edition that introduced them. The next question is how many to charge.   I figured The first feat, in a chain similar to the feat chains leading to heavy armor, would cover 1st-3rd level spells. The second feat would cover 4th-6th level spells, and the 3rd feat would cover 7th-9th level spells.   The first feat in the chain would require you to already have the school of magic as your specialist school, or in the variant for things like druids and clerics, have a theme the DM agrees fits the cross over. In Druid Cleric Cross overs, we have Light domain: Flame Blade, and we have Good Berry: Healing Domain.    I don't know enough about druids to know how to convert backwards from a Main druid taking cleric spells, but I think DMs will know which spells fit their categories.   Here's a stronger variant of this Feat Chain: 1st feat: Lesser: cantrips through 4th level 2nd feat: Greater: 5th level through 9th level     Here's a weaker varian of this feat Chain: 1st feat: cantrips & first level 2nd feat: 2nd and 3rd level 3rd feat: 4th and 5th level 4th feat: 6th and 7th level 5th feat: 8th and 9th level   Basically, this breaks down the spells into either 3 portions of 9, ignoring cantrips (treated as 1st level spells) or as 2 portions of 10, or five portions of 10, treating cantrips as a 10th part of spell levels.   The benefits are not so obvious if you only cast low level spells, but if your focus is higher level spells, or you simply want something like a Flame Blade on a non druid magic class base, this might be the ticket.   The prerequisite of having school specialization or Druid Circle or Cleric Domain also acts as a heavy restriction, and obviously you don't gain new spell levels you didn't already have. Instead, the effect might be vaguely similar to making your spell list have more diversity, similar to the bard effect. Obviously, if there were some sort of Enchantment, Verbal only, or Musical spell not available to Bards, they could take this same feat chain to gain access.   Thoughts welcome, as i haven't even written up a demo version of the feat yet.   I was inspired by an episode of Game of thrones where the Lord of Light followers make a Flame sword.
#2 Bloodscythe Aug 18, 2015 10:59:37	Priests of a particular domain already has an augmented list of available spells.  Look at priests of Light.  Just tweak it to provide the domain spells you think they should get, and invent new domains.   Maybe just create a feat that provides access to a 2nd list of domain spells.  Or just houserule that at 5th or 10th lvl a cleric gains access to another set of domain spells.   As far as specialist wizards go, I allow wizards to create and customize their own spells.  Wizards, afterall, are always researching and developing new magic.  Really, the only limitation I place on them is they cannot cast raise dead, resurrection, reincarnation, or healing spells.  There are probably some others in there I'm forgetting.
#3 BoltHammer Aug 18, 2015 11:17:35	In the example of Fire Priest and Good Necromancer, seems like it would be easier to just for Fire Domain (slightly altered Light Domain) for Fire Priest and Death Domain (DMG pg. 96) for Good Necromancer. But if you and your group like feat chains then what you propose should work.
#4 rampant Aug 18, 2015 11:34:27	Um no.   Magic initiate gives you knowledge of 3 spells, that's it. Now I'm not saying you have to mimic that feat but offering up multiple whole spell levels, even of a restricted list like transmutaion is overboard.
#5 ankiyavon Aug 18, 2015 12:36:32	I feel like the vast majority of the spells you'd gain access to are not really an improvement over what you already had. I'd rather see them done domain-style, where the feat offers some side benefits, as well as access to a list of specific spells (one or two at each level).  You'd continue with the feat chain idea, so the first feat might be something like Flame Initiate:  Gain this flame-based side benefit or two (or three if they're really weak or flavor).  Also, add the following spells to your spell list (a selection of 1st-3rd level fire spells).    I'd rather see a cantrip be a side benefit than be a list of spells known thing, for a few reasons; one is that cantrips, as at-will magic, are more important to a character than spells known, and another is that it can be confusing to just throw a cantrip on a list of spells known because they work a little differently.  I'd just rather have it be its own bullet point so it can say things like "You know the cantrip and can cast it at will, your spellcasting ability is blah" and so on.   rampant wrote:
#6 shintashi Aug 19, 2015 10:04:45	yeah the balance isn't really the issue, rather the approach. Transmuters can already raise dead once per day at 14th level. The real complexities are where it isn't so obvious, and probably shouldn't be set up that way. For example, Cure wounds is evocation, while attacks that inflict direct (non elemental) bodily harm are typically necrotic, and necrotic attacks are necromancy. Obviously the intent wasn't to give cure wounds to the guy with fireball, but cure wounds on a necromancer might make good sense. (i.e., Vitomancy). Prismatic Wall and Prismatic Sphere ended up in completely different domains, when both used to be, what? illusion schools? Speak with dead is necromancy, but i could see it as divination, while spirit guardians is conjuration, but i could see it as necromancy (there used to be a spell similar to it in the necromancer's handbook).   I think one solution is multi school spells. In spells & Magic, you got to see things like Fireball appear on the Fire Magic list, as well as the evocation list. Rope Trick might appear on the Dimensionalist list, as well as alteration or whatever. I think the Bard is a good example of a 'school' called song where the same spells from other classes appear.   What I'm trying to do is create a Feat mechanism that allows people to broaden their specialty, in the simplest way possible, without being so vague the feat ends up doing too much or too little. Perhaps using terms to code groups of spells would work? Like When they say "charm" spells, or "cure spells" in other editions especially, they meant like a half dozen different spells. You knew what they were talking about because the term was in the title of the spell.   Wizards can definitely create their own spells, although i think specialists should be better at creating spells of their own school.
#7 rampant Aug 19, 2015 10:45:48	What exactly are you trying to do here? Spell knowledge? or Domain in a can?
(Reply to #7) shintashi	rampant wrote:
(Reply to #8) Bloodscythe	shintashi wrote: