Cunning Action -- wanted to make sure I'm doing this right. - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 KaribouOfDoom Sep 01, 2014 21:52:13	I'd appreciate it if someone could let me know if I have the following hypothetical combat actions correct, when a Rogue uses their Cunning Action feat. Assume the rogue's base speed is 30. A rogue has their weapon drawn and is standing next to an enemy or using a ranged weapon. The rogue could Attack (action), disengage (bonus action) and move back 30 feet (move action) without incurring an attack of opportunity. A rogue is standing next to an enemy. The rogue could disengage (action), move 30 feet (move action), then dash another 30 feet (bonus action.) A rogue could draw a sword (done while moving and acting, a "zero action."), move 30 feet to an attacker (move action), Attack (action) and dash back 30 feet (bonus action), but will incur an attack of opportunity when they leave their enemy in the dash action. And general question: Sheathing or drawing a sword can be done in tandem with the other combat actions/moves. The section says nothing about ranged weapons, clubs, quarterstaffs, etc. The "combat actions" section doesn't list drawing a non-sword weapon as an action, but it does include "use an object." Obviously, "use an object" could include retrieving and drinking a potion, using a wand, etc. What's the feeling on this? Is using a ranged weapon different because you have to "load" an arrow or bolt? I assume a club or mace is the same as drawing a sword, but I could use guidance on ranged weapons and large staffs, which may be unwieldly. Thanks!
#2 RKVM Sep 01, 2014 22:55:26	You are right about almost everything. Only 3 points of clarification: Drawing a non-sword weapon is the same as drawing a sword. You can pull out a bow, glaive, shield, tommygun, whatever. In every instance it is a non-action, but within limits. You can only draw or sheathe a single item or weapon as a non-action, the only exception being if you have the Dual Wielder feat that allows you to draw or stow 2. This can be seen as a sort of "quick draw" feat that I have used before, with express permission from my DM, to sheathe one sword and draw a javelin within the same action to attack at range. This may or may not be allowed at the discretion of your presiding DM. Using an item is different than drawing an item. You can draw a potion of healing from your pack as a non-action but using it takes an Action, or Cunning Action in the case of Thief Archetype Rogues. Using a ranged weapon is no different than swinging a sword. The only issue is with crossbows which have the "loading" property. This limits them to a single attack per round, as the process of cranking the mechanism takes longer than simply pulling another bolt and firing. This means that even with Extra Attacks, you can only fire the crossbow once and must wait until the next round for the non-action of loading to happen. The Crossbow Expert feat negates this, thus allowing as many crossbow attacks as you have Extra Attacks.
#3 2Chlorobutanal Sep 01, 2014 23:24:53	I believe there was a clarification that using a magic item that requires an action, such as a Potion of Healing, is not the "use an object" action but rather a type of action specific to the item - you could call it the "Drink a Potion of Healing" action, if you wished. Therefore, the intention is that Thief Rogues cannot use magic items with Cunning Action if they require "an action" or are used "as an action." "Use an Object" and therefore also "Fast Hands" is strictly for doing a second activity on your turn that would otherwise be a "non-action": open or close a door, stow or draw an item, kick an object on the ground, drink some (non-magical) liquid, eat some (non-magical) food, plant a flag, etc.- use the things listed in the "interacting with objects" sidebar for guidelines. Additionally: There is no move action in 5th edition. The dash action does not cause movement- it provides a bonus to your movement allowance in a given turn. This is a subtle distinction, and the results in the OP are correct, but the method used to obtain them is a little bit off. A rogue has their weapon drawn and is standing next to an enemy or using a ranged weapon. The rogue could Attack (action), disengage (bonus action) and move back 30 feet (move action) without incurring an attack of opportunity. A rogue is standing next to an enemy. The rogue could disengage (action), move 30 feet (move action), then dash another 30 feet (bonus action.) A rogue could draw a sword (done while moving and acting, a "zero action."), move 30 feet to an attacker (move action), Attack (action) and dash back 30 feet (bonus action), but will incur an attack of opportunity when they leave their enemy in the dash action.
(Reply to #2) Shiroiken	RKVM wrote:

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

KaribouOfDoom

Sep 01, 2014 21:52:13

I'd appreciate it if someone could let me know if I have the following hypothetical combat actions correct, when a Rogue uses their Cunning Action feat. Assume the rogue's base speed is 30.

A rogue has their weapon drawn and is standing next to an enemy or using a ranged weapon. The rogue could Attack (action), disengage (bonus action) and move back 30 feet (move action) without incurring an attack of opportunity.
A rogue is standing next to an enemy. The rogue could disengage (action), move 30 feet (move action), then dash another 30 feet (bonus action.)
A rogue could draw a sword (done while moving and acting, a "zero action."), move 30 feet to an attacker (move action), Attack (action) and dash back 30 feet (bonus action), but will incur an attack of opportunity when they leave their enemy in the dash action.

And general question:

Sheathing or drawing a sword can be done in tandem with the other combat actions/moves. The section says nothing about ranged weapons, clubs, quarterstaffs, etc.
The "combat actions" section doesn't list drawing a non-sword weapon as an action, but it does include "use an object." Obviously, "use an object" could include retrieving and drinking a potion, using a wand, etc.

What's the feeling on this? Is using a ranged weapon different because you have to "load" an arrow or bolt? I assume a club or mace is the same as drawing a sword, but I could use guidance on ranged weapons and large staffs, which may be unwieldly.

Thanks!

RKVM

Sep 01, 2014 22:55:26

You are right about almost everything. Only 3 points of clarification:

Drawing a non-sword weapon is the same as drawing a sword. You can pull out a bow, glaive, shield, tommygun, whatever. In every instance it is a non-action, but within limits. You can only draw or sheathe a single item or weapon as a non-action, the only exception being if you have the Dual Wielder feat that allows you to draw or stow 2. This can be seen as a sort of "quick draw" feat that I have used before, with express permission from my DM, to sheathe one sword and draw a javelin within the same action to attack at range. This may or may not be allowed at the discretion of your presiding DM.

Using an item is different than drawing an item. You can draw a potion of healing from your pack as a non-action but using it takes an Action, or Cunning Action in the case of Thief Archetype Rogues.

Using a ranged weapon is no different than swinging a sword. The only issue is with crossbows which have the "loading" property. This limits them to a single attack per round, as the process of cranking the mechanism takes longer than simply pulling another bolt and firing. This means that even with Extra Attacks, you can only fire the crossbow once and must wait until the next round for the non-action of loading to happen. The Crossbow Expert feat negates this, thus allowing as many crossbow attacks as you have Extra Attacks.

2Chlorobutanal

Sep 01, 2014 23:24:53

I believe there was a clarification that using a magic item that requires an action, such as a Potion of Healing, is not the "use an object" action but rather a type of action specific to the item - you could call it the "Drink a Potion of Healing" action, if you wished.

Therefore, the intention is that Thief Rogues cannot use magic items with Cunning Action if they require "an action" or are used "as an action." "Use an Object" and therefore also "Fast Hands" is strictly for doing a second activity on your turn that would otherwise be a "non-action": open or close a door, stow or draw an item, kick an object on the ground, drink some (non-magical) liquid, eat some (non-magical) food, plant a flag, etc.- use the things listed in the "interacting with objects" sidebar for guidelines.

Additionally:

There is no move action in 5th edition. The dash action does not cause movement- it provides a bonus to your movement allowance in a given turn. This is a subtle distinction, and the results in the OP are correct, but the method used to obtain them is a little bit off.

A rogue has their weapon drawn and is standing next to an enemy or using a ranged weapon. The rogue could Attack (action), disengage (bonus action) and move back 30 feet (move action) without incurring an attack of opportunity.

A rogue is standing next to an enemy. The rogue could disengage (action), move 30 feet (move action), then dash another 30 feet (bonus action.)

A rogue could draw a sword (done while moving and acting, a "zero action."), move 30 feet to an attacker (move action), Attack (action) and dash back 30 feet (bonus action), but will incur an attack of opportunity when they leave their enemy in the dash action.

(Reply to #2)

Shiroiken

RKVM wrote: