Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Lord_Ventnor Jul 22, 2014 1:26:58	I think one of my favorite things about 5e is how many ways there are to build a gish character (that is, a character who wields both weapons and arcane spells with some efficiency). Here are a few, off the top of my head:   - First of all, in the basic rule we have the High Elf race who adds a little magical flair to any class, even the normally magic-starved fighters and rogues.   - Warlocks have a lot of Arcane Power to throw around, and according to this preview, are a little more martially inclined than most other casters. They even have a specific pact, the Pact of the Blade, for those Warlocks who want to focus on mixing it up in melee.   - If the rumors are to be believed, then Fighters will also get an Eldritch Knight subclass that grants them access to spells that are useful in fights.   Since the Magic Knight is a personal favorite trope of mine, I'm pretty pleased that there are several different ways to go about realizing this concept in 5e, even before multiclassing comes into play.   Anyway, anyone else have other thoughts about this? Any gish-type class that I might have overlooked? Just want to gush about the gish?
#2 Daganev Jul 22, 2014 1:42:46	From the playtest, rumors, and the class descriptions at the start of each class, every class will have a gish option, or will be a gish option, except for the Wizard, which is only good at magic. Bard - Gish as is (full caster according to L&L) Barbarian - Spirit totems are sort of magical in a way Cleric - war domain Druid - built in gish with animal forms Fighter - Eldritch knight Monk - Elemental path Paladin - Built in as gish Ranger - Half caster, built in gish. Thief - Arcane trickster Sorcerer - Draconic line Warlock - Blade pact Wizard - Umm, ok, just spell casting.
#3 TiaNadiezja Jul 22, 2014 2:45:01	I expect the Wizard gish is going to be multiclassing to Eldritch Knight.
#4 Youngy Jul 22, 2014 4:19:35	You're forgetting the Valor Bard!
#5 Mephi1234 Jul 22, 2014 4:54:34	Youngy wrote:
#6 Marandahir Jul 22, 2014 5:16:50	Supposedly, the Sorcerer no longer is a gish, even Draconic sorcerers.  They've got more hitpoints and better defense than most Wizards, but they're really no good with weapons.  They get the same weapon profs as Wizards. Also, if that document is to be believed, the Shadow Monk can mix it up and cast spells too.
#7 Mephi1234 Jul 22, 2014 6:03:01	Marandahir wrote:
#8 Squad Jul 22, 2014 6:17:41	Marandahir wrote:
#9 Marandahir Jul 22, 2014 6:29:58	The rumored leaked document that many people are referring to on this board, but no one is specifically talking about – it's commonly thought to be a leaked alpha playtest.  However, I can tell you for certain that there are differences between this document and several of the final-book previews, though the differences are relatively few, making it a good indication that something like the Shadow Monk will be in the final book in some form.  Mephi1234 wrote:
#10 Mechatarrasque Jul 22, 2014 7:15:53	Marandahir wrote:
#11 Mephi1234 Jul 22, 2014 7:40:07	Expertise?   That's the rogue thing for skills.   You must be thinking of Fighting Styles.   And, while the hexblade option probably won't come with them, neither does the barbarian, monk, rogue, or bard.   If you are concerned with DPS, I am sure we are going to get some Imbuements or hex cantrips that will serve in its place.    Warlocks are still arcanists first and foremost, so magic should be a big part of it, not physical talent.      Plus, I bet hexblades will get to change their weapons at will, and all will use Charisma.; the devs seem pretty good about not having MAD classes.  So, when you use one stat to deal both ranged and massive melee damage, as well as your magic, that's probably worth a Fighting Style or two.      I am imagining an infernal hexblade with necrotic/fire imbued weapons. And a hellfire shield for protection.   Add on something akin to 4e infernal pact boon?   Lots of life, magic weapons, and defenses.   Fey warlocks tend to be more sneaky, so fey hexblade would probably act like a rogue or stealthy monk.   Star blades?   Star pacts can manipulate luck/fate, so they will likely get dpr from pure accuracy.      Its the difference between a tiefling warrior, a drow warrior, and a  ..... Umm....  Okay, I don't have a good third warlock race.    Lightfoot halfling for the charisma and luck?   Dunno.  The other two come with spells as race feature, so I suspect that ties into being iconic warlock races somehow.
#12 Mephi1234 Jul 22, 2014 7:44:51	Mechagamera wrote:
#13 Lawolf Jul 22, 2014 7:53:14	Sure, every class in 5e can use magic and use weapons. Some classes can even do both during the same turn. But no class combines swordplay and magic use at the same time; no class casts spells by making weapon attacks.    I am really sad to see that we don't have (an it doesn't soud like we ever will) a proper Swordmage. Mike Mearls keeps saying that the eldritch knight or the abjurer wizard allow you to make a Swordmage. From everything we have seen about those subclasses, the are really no different from a spellcaster fighter multiclass. They don't cast spells that are also weapon attacks like the Swordmage does. They don't blend magical ability and martial prowess together seemlessly.   I guess I will need to homebrew one.
#14 Mephi1234 Jul 22, 2014 8:03:04	Define seemlessly.    What do you mean by both spells and weapon attacks?    Both eldritch knight and skald seem to be able to cast a spell and attack at the same time.   How is that different?
#15 Lawolf Jul 22, 2014 8:27:53	Mephi1234 wrote:
#16 Mephi1234 Jul 22, 2014 8:35:29	Lawolf wrote:
#17 Lawolf Jul 22, 2014 9:29:56	Mephi1234 wrote:
#18 Mephi1234 Jul 22, 2014 9:48:02	Sounds like a result of the weaker magic system, then.   That all sounds doable to me, but in limited bursts and draining daily resources.       Part of the whole no-caster dominance thing.
#19 GhostStepper Jul 22, 2014 9:52:37	I'm wondering if feats are going to have any prereqs. If not, i'd run any caster i play as a Warcaster for the ability to make AoOs with spells and the Polearm feat to make AoOs whenever anyone steps adjacent. You walk around with a glaive as your "wizard's staff" and whenever any monsters run up on you, you get to blast them with a spell.    Mephi1234 wrote:
#20 Marandahir Jul 22, 2014 10:19:47	Sorry, I meant the extra attack that Barbarians, Paladins, Rangers, and Valor Bards get, and Fighters get 3 times, not expertise.  My bad.  But you're right, the also don't get Fighting Styles, which Barbarians, Rangers, Paladins, and Fighters all get (and notably, Bards and Clerics, the other two "gishy" classes, don't).
#21 Mephi1234 Jul 22, 2014 10:38:03	GhostStepper wrote:
#22 DemoMonkey Jul 22, 2014 10:44:29	"All it takes is designing a class that does magic through a sword. You'd just need spells that require a weapon to function."   Which would require the "sword" to be esentially fluff, or for there to be actual disarm rules.
#23 GhostStepper Jul 22, 2014 10:55:06	Mephi1234 wrote:
#24 spelley Jul 22, 2014 11:15:24	Lawolf wrote:
(Reply to #21) Marandahir	Mephi1234 wrote:
#26 Lawolf Jul 22, 2014 11:29:28	As I said, I will probably just make a Swordmage base class as no current class or subclass fits well either mechanically or thematically. It will be much easier to just build it from the ground up than to try and fit a square peg in a round hole.
#27 Mephi1234 Jul 22, 2014 12:06:29	GhostStepper wrote:
#28 spelley Jul 22, 2014 14:58:02	Lawolf wrote:
(Reply to #13) Ashrym	Lawolf wrote:
#30 GhostStepper Jul 22, 2014 21:17:17	Mephi1234 wrote: