Seriously. That's it. It doesn't have to be complex. It doesn't have to output 3D character portraits. It doesn't have to wash your dog, do your laundry, or drive us to work. It. Just. Has. To. Make. Characters.
Why is this so difficult for you all to not only understand, but implement? I barely know the basics of HTML5 and yet I could do it with a few spare days. Just open up the bloody game licensing already and, at the very, very, very least, let others do it for you.
I do not want a character builder.
I believe that you and the others who want a character builder will get one. However, WotC knows that a portion of the fanbase wants a character builder. If you really want to impress the strength and popularity of your opinion on WotC, you would be far better served by starting an e-mail, phone call, or letter-writing campaign, or by putting together a petition (a real petition, not some forum thread where people post agreement).
In all honestly, why? To make a 9 minute job of creating a character into a 5 minute one? I've literally made a 1st level 5E character in less time than it takes to brew a pot of coffee and that was HAND writing out the features. Human fighter goes like this
Human
Fighter (champion) 1st level
-
Ability Scores:
Str 16, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 9, Wis 13, Cha 11
-
Background: Soldier (infantry)
Tools: Gaming set (chess), land vehicles
-
Skills:
Athletics (+5), Intimidate (+2), Perception (+3), Survival (+3)
-
Features:
Second Wind - bonus action: regain 1d10 + 1 HP/short or long rest
Fighting Style - Duelist
-
Languages:
Chondathan, Common
-
Equipment:
longsword, shield, chain mail, javelins x3, explorer's gear, chess set, 10 gp.
STATS
AC 17 (shield, chain mail)
HP 12 (1d10+2)
Melee-Longsword: +5 to hit (reach 5-ft.), Hit: 1d8+5 slashing damage
Ranged-Javelin: +5 to hit (30/120-ft.). Hit: 1d6+3 piercing damage
Saving Throws: Strength +5, Constitution +4
Took me 5 minutes, 43 seconds to choose those options. It'll take maybe 5 or so more if you take your time and flip through the book for every option (or more with the 20 or so feats and spell lists).
Diffan wrote:
Yes, 5e needs a character builder. Though not everyone would use it, a character builder helps to draw people into the game and is especially useful for those who like to keep track of their character electronically.
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I would like a character builder. It serves more purposes than "ease of creation." it'd help with math, especially for new people to D&D. It would also allow for easy management of multiple characters, and levelling them up (or down). If it pulled updates from WotC when new content was available it could also incorporate errata and new options all in one source. The builder doesn't just need to make characters it should be a source about the material used for building them (spell lists/descriptions, class and race details, feats, etc.). Also a good creator would allow houseruling features like custom classes and races that could be distributed to others so a DM could create a custom campaign "pack" and have his players create the character from that pack with those options only.
What I want is smartphone/tablet access to the books. Or the content of the books. I could pay the price presented for the equivalent products at Fantasy Ground if I could access it from a smartphone.
I'm curious about the economics. Maybe people here have some insight.
Suppose I am a software creator (which I am) who has, just for fun, made a 5e character generator (which I have). If I wanted to publish it, I would need to cut a licensing deal with WotC because it contains substantial parts of the PHB and that's not mine to sell. How does the arithmetic stack up?
It would have to sell for $50+ otherwise people might stop buying the PHB. Suppose it's $60 and suppose WotC take half, so I get $30. Is that enough? Depends how many people buy it. How many players would pay $60 for a character generator they use for, maybe 10 minutes a week? I don't know, that's why I'm asking. My guess is around 5000, assuming that it's not an exclusive licence and my product has competition. So I might get $150,000, less tax. For that, I'd have to maintain it indefinitely, respond to users queries, add content every six months when WotC releases a new book, re-test it every time MIcrosoft update Windows, fix bugs that users report, employ a side-kick to take over when I die, chase pirates who upload it onto sharing sites, and so on.
Is it worth it, to me? Nope. Too much hassle for too little return. A better solution, is if I use it to generate pregens and upload them for people to use for free, or not, as they wish (which I have). WotC encourages us to publsh characters freely, but it doesn't encourage us to publish character generators, at least not with half the PHB inside them.
See, it depends whether you want the character generator because you want to experience the process of building characters repeatedly, or if you just want a new character to play right now so you can get on with the game. If it's the former, then, sooner or later, a software house will come along, decide it's worth it, and give you what you are asking for. If it's the latter, then in my view pregens are the way to move forward and we are doing that already.
No reason we can't do both, though.
Repost from another thread:
I've used all manner of digital character generators, for countless systems, for many years. Like 3.x, 4e, Pathfinder, Shadowrun, Hero, GURPS, M&M, WoD, SW, just to name a few.
But you know what system I'm finding I just don't need one for at this time? 5e. I don't feel character creation in 5e is at all scattered or complicated enough to warrant it. At least not at this time. Maybe somewhere down the road when more books spread options around more? Sure.
I know it might not be WotC, but here is an amazing character builder:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.wgkammerer.testgui.basiccharactersheet.app&hl=en
From what I've been told, it is also available to Apple users. Yes it has its limitations, but I can make a character like Diffan suggested in under a minute. Take a look, as I think making a level one character is free. If you want to be able to level up, I think I paid 5$, but now I can make as many characters as I want and level up to 20.
Great app!
I'd like (and would pay for) a digital tool I could use to print character sheets, spells and monsters because I'm lazy. If I'm running a game the last thing I want to do is have to flip through the monster manual for stats, the PHB for spells, the DMG for the details of the magic item the party just found. It would also be nice to have a monster builder.
Right now a significant part of my prep time is typing up monster stats so I don't have to use the MM during the game and I'm starting to do the same for spells. It's a time consuming pain that could be better spent on story, NPCs and maps.
I think veterans also underestimate how hard it is for newbies to create characters. It is easy ... compared to previous editions. If you spend a lot of time playing it's simple. The occasional player that just wants to play for a few hours here and there? Not so much.
How often does one need to create a new character? Often enough that creating it from the book is prohibitively time consuming? Seems suprising.
Not totally impressed with the "what we want" in the thread title - how has it been deemed that this is something the community as a whole wants? Don't project your own wishes onto others...
The OP did not claim that "everyone is clamoring for it."
Only that they, and at least some other people, are. "We" does not equate to "everyone".
I would like a character builder. I don't find one necessary to build characters in 5E - thank goodness - , but it would be convenient, especially when building characters at higher levels than 1st.
That makes at least two of us.
Sure he did. Don't be pedantic.
Hrall wrote:
The real question is, what are we willing to PAY for a character builder. Nothing? A subscription? A flat fee? The price Fantasy Grounds are asking?
Synjin wrote:
DemoMonkey wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
"3E PHB came with a free character generator CD. I still have it in mine."
As I recall, that character generator allowed you to equip an infinite number of chickens as they had no weight.
Do we REALLY want to emulate that? Haven't we all had our fill of "Infinite Poultry" builds?
DemoMonkey wrote:
DemoMonkey wrote:
DemoMonkey wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
Strawman much? I never made any of those claims you are saying I made.
Question:
Why does it affect you so much that some of us vocalize not needing software to handle 5e character creation at this time?
DaFlea wrote:
DemoMonkey wrote:
Synjin wrote:
Based on prior performance, their DDI (Digital Dogwash Interface) would:
Only allow washing of purebreds; no "custom" breeds
Only allow dogs to be washed when connected to WOTC water supply
Limit you to 20 dog washes. Ever.
Require a subsccription to update with fresh towels and soap
Periodically crash your dog and require you to back up from the most recent puppy
Offer you a "Quick Wash" option to create pre-washed dogs, all of which will have sub-optimal features such as spears for legs and the ability to hide when in complete darkness
and require Silverlight. JUST BECAUSE.
Diffan wrote:
I still want a character visualiser.
Mirtek wrote:
pauln6 wrote:
Hrall wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
akaddk wrote:
Grazel wrote:
Grazel wrote:
akaddk wrote:
If there is a character builder it ... MUST... be modifiable.
A standard CB that cant be tweaked is useless in any game where folks have added their own backgrounds, or feats, or class modifications, etc etc. And 5e is very much about making it your own.
If they give us a modifiable CB, maybe that we can give a code, and then other players can log in to our version with that code - That would be BRILLIANT. All the houserules incoporated into one database. That would be genuinely useful to me.
Even something as simple as being able to remove automation and write over entries manually. That would probably work.
Anything less than this is worthless. I hope that's what we will eventually see, and why it's taking so long.
Add in cool character portraits, maybe even item portraits... I would pay $$ for such a service.
Psikerlord wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
I'd use the herolabs for 5e to quickly make a non 1st level NPC or such. Quick 9th level NPC in hero labs beats the pen and paper method. I don't need herolabs for this but it does make it quicker to generate.
I HAVE to use herolabs for pathfinder since the game has 1700+ feats now, I would say amazing but it's really not, more annoying now that I think about it.
I would like to see 2nd print of PHB that has spell description part like the 3,5E PHB.
but yes, character builder would be nice.
Mistwell wrote:
Mistwell wrote:
Kangodo wrote:
Id love a CB. And some mags. I have the 5e character sheet app, its pretty cool, it at least fills in your class features, etc and has feat and background lists. Not bad for free!
Mistwell wrote:
...or, I dunno, maybe we could go back to teaching our youth not to fear math?
So all the people arguing against the people wanting a CB are afraid that with the skeleton crew left to work on D&D any work towards a CB is directly taking away precious ressources from WotC working at something they'd rather have?
That's the only valid reason I can think of for posting that other people's demand for a CB is not needed and should not be fullfilled by WotC
Mirtek wrote:
Mirtek wrote:
akaddk wrote:
DemoMonkey wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
dafrca wrote:
Mirtek wrote:
Mistwell wrote:
I have removed content from this thread because inappropriate language/masking is a violation of the Code of Conduct.
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Mistwell wrote:
Shasarak wrote:
RCanine wrote:
cbwjm wrote:
Mistwell wrote:
Mistwell wrote:
I don't want or need a character builder, I usually make one up on excel and just use that in spreadsheet form.
There is nothing more exciting than wirting out the six stats with a pencil and paper and then rolling....
So no I don't want a character builder
Mistwell wrote:
Grazel wrote:
For those who want the CB, do you take the time to read through all the options (3000+ for 4e) or do you simply press the WotC "build it for me" button?
Is there really a difference between scrolling through online pages and turning pages in a printed book?
draegn wrote:
I actively support anyone who seeks to find a game that better suits their playstyle. I wish you luck.
draegn wrote:
Put me down as someone who wants WotC to provide a character builder. I thought in general both versions of the 4E character builder were pretty good. Going back the 1E/2E/3E builders all worked fairly well too. The main feature I want as someone who is often a DM is the ability to click build me a level 5 party and have it spit out the characters and let me print them (or generate PDFs) to use in a game, with whatever degrees of randomness I want. Like others have said I enjoy a tool that lets me try things and play around.
I'll also second having a visualizer tool to let me create an image of my PC. The dream of course is the 3D visualizer lets me turn around and custom 3D print my miniature on demand.
I'm a little surprised that the anti-character builder voice is so strong in this thread. Even if you don't want one or feel one is needed in 5E (and I think we all agree 5E isn't overly complex or has too many options) why not encourage WotC to have as many tools as possible? Not like they're going to take Chris Perkins off his job working on the big stories to have to code up the generator.
L
Okay, everyone step back and take a deep, cleansing breath. Go play video games, vent some steam, and then come back.
Some people don't want a character generator, and some do. That's cool. I'd like to see one, if only to make reading my wife's character sheet easier. Her handwriting is atrocious.
Let's agree to disagree about whether one is necessary or not. "Necessary" is one of those things that's highly subjective, and sometimes you have to just let it go.
Legendarius wrote:
Mistwell wrote:
[Not in reply to anyone in particular]
Just out of interest, if we had a character generator, how often do people think they would use it?
- I'd sit and play with it for hours every day, just making builds
- Quite often - my characters die a lot / I'm forever rebuilding my characters
- {DMs} Between sessions, to make NPCs
- After every session, to update / level up my character
- Once or twice a year, when a new season rolls around and I start a new character
- Never, I hate the idea
ChrisCarlson wrote:
BoldItalic wrote:
Legendarius wrote:
BoldItalic wrote:
BoldItalic wrote:
BoldItalic wrote:
edwin_su wrote:
My only beef with automated tools like this is that they eventually fall behind printed material, rendering them obsolete, or there's some other house-rule issue where you can't really use it.
It's sorta like spending $20 on the spell cards and then taking the Magic Initiate feat or taking a spell from PoA... now you either have to buy another deck for two spells or your cards are obsolete.
Well, if you look at the two 4e character builders, it is pretty clear that the first, off-line one had some pretty severe costing problems. You were only up-to-date if you were a paid subscriber, but whenever you subscribed, your character builder was made up-to-date at that time. This meant that you could let your subscription lapse and then sign up for one month every year or so and get all of the updates that happened that year.
The on-line one was better from a cost perspective since you only had access to it while subscribed, so it was always up-to-date with new material.
In both cases though, the ability to house rule and customize was too limited, especially in ways that didn't directly impact the performance. I can understand that allowing players to make their own feats that could modify other stats in the character builder could be hard without the proper interface and that such an interface could look quite ugly, same with magic items, but allowing players to just write the text of a custom feat or magic item and then having it locked in place without modifying anything else would be easier to set up.
Still, products like the spell cards are a bad deal no matter because WotC is not likely to keep them up-to-date with all of the spells or possible errata that could happen.
BoldItalic wrote:
I don't understand why people are arguing against it. If you don't want it, ignore this post and move on, or when it comes out, don't use it. For my own reasons, I would like one and I'm not starting a 5e campaign until I have one. There was supposed to be one available on April 15, it is now more than a month overdue. Why do I need one? Well I don't need to justify my reasons anymore than the nay-sayers need to justify theirs.
srellison55 wrote:
BoldItalic wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
Shasarak wrote:
DoctorBadWolf wrote:
Nothing changes.
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DoctorBadWolf wrote:
Its probably better to get a builder out when there is less material so that when the bulk of material comes along bugs and issues are largely sorted out when there is time to.
ChrisCarlson wrote:
Hurin88 wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
DoctorBadWolf wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
DoctorBadWolf wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
Oh, you're a pedant. My bad.
ChrisCarlson wrote:
Hurin88 wrote:
DoctorBadWolf wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
RCanine wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
RCanine wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
RCanine wrote:
RCanine wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
5E Does need a character builder and tools. Yes, I know there are as yet only a few books and the complexity does not yet seem to demand a compendium, character builder and so on like DDI, but especially as complexity grows, people playing 4th will either drop subscriptions to DDI as they switch, or not switch and not buy books. Either way wizards loses revenue. The ideal would be making it a new feature in DDI.
DoctorBadWolf wrote:
I would like a character builder. It would make creating a character easier and more enjoyable for me. If there are a significant number of people who feel the same way, creating one would be a useful marketing tool for encouraging new players.
So really, it should be a question in their next survey - along with costing options - so they can determine whether it makes economic sense to create one, or license one to be created.
I'm not certain how this can possibly be a contentious issue.
DemoMonkey wrote:
In the absence of a character builder, if someone produced a series of books of pregen characters with tear-out character sheets, 100 characters per book, also available as PDF, a new book every month, would you buy any of them and how much do you think the books should sell for?
I would pay 50 citrines and a coral statue of an ogre for such a book.
BoldItalic wrote:
DemoMonkey wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
DoctorBadWolf wrote:
BoldItalic wrote:
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DoctorBadWolf wrote:
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Zardnaar wrote:
A character builder would be nice.
It helps bring people into the game when they know they can test out builds, and they can actually learn the rules of the game through it, without having to worry about making mistakes in determining what stat or bonus modifies what ability. I personally know of several people who were drawn into 4e just from having fun with the character builder.
It can make life easier for a DM by having a standardized system of electronic characer sheets, ideally in a central location.
It allows people to keep track of their characters electronically, which for many people is the preferred method.
It eliminates errors in addition and in figuring out class bonuses.
For all these reasons, a character builder would be nice.
Agreed. On all point.
Zardnaar wrote:
even if you are making 50 million a year, it's better to make 52 to 60+ million a year, instead.
Choosing to not do so, when doing so costs less than a million between initial cost and first couple years upkeep cost.
and let's be super clear, here. EVEN IF it cost a million, split between investment and upkeep, and it only output 2 million a year, IT WOULD STILL BE WORTH IT. It would also not in any way be a drop in the bucket, or any other cutesy phrase that translates to "insignifigent."
If DnD were still making 50 million a year, an extra couple million a year would still be a signifigent increase in profit margin.
And 2 million is the bare minimum estimate. Twice that is vastly more likely, and something around 10 million a year is still more likely than the lowball number.
Companies like walmart don't intentionally piss away that kind of money, or completely ignore opportunities to increase profits that much. Wizards isn't even in that ballpark. WoTC is small time, and the only way they have any chance whatsoever of even being in sight of those record profits again is if they embrace the ways in which digital tools can enhance their game, keep it up with the minis, and keep listening to their fans regarding what people want from future products. They got two out of three, but they won't make it without that first one.
DoctorBadWolf wrote:
I would want an options book first to allow mechanics similar to spells, to customize martial characters. Feats don't meet the need. I don't feel a character builder would be very useful, unless you were a caster or were heavy into multiclassing. I expect most people that like 5E for being simple may not allow multiclassing.
Zardnaar wrote:
DoctorBadWolf wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
DoctorBadWolf wrote:
and I've explained why I think your conclusion is complete nonsense.
btw, the dnd next playtest had over 175k participants.
That's 21,000,000 a year at the low (everyone is saving money paying 10 a month) end. That's probably more than half what they made a year from 3.5, total.
And as before, there isn't actually any evidence that digital tools reduce print sales.
Every single group I've ever met who used digital tools also purchased the books. And it doesn't obviate the usefulness of minis, or printed vinyl maps, or dungeon terrain, which they need to get into.
We're going to get digital tools. It's just a matter of them finding a new company to do it, or figuring out that they can give a license to any number of people who have already made 3rd party apps/programs, and let them make an official, fully functional version.
No one is going to pay $10 a month to rent a character builder.
For $10 a month you could get an Ultimate license for Fantasy Grounds.
DoctorBadWolf wrote:
I would love a 5e Character Builder that had the options from the core books, the PotA AL player PDF, and all the Unearthed Arcana PDFs. Not every character being created is starting from 1st level and sometimes half the fun of character builders are trying out weird and crazy stuff you never thought about trying before.