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| #1NevvurMar 13, 2015 12:29:35 | I'm curious to read how the citizens of your original setting perceive certain types of magic.
I believe most people feel that burning someone alive is a particularly cruel and horrendous way to kill someone. Influenced by recent world events, I've been adding a little moral philosophy to one of the major magic organizations in my homebrew setting. Namely, they outlaw the use of fire spells against most sapient creatures (some exclusions include undead, fiends and aberrations not immune to it). The spells are still available, but even killing evil creatures might result in punitive action if your deeds are discovered by authorities (wizard casts fireball on a goblin camp, leaving charred bodies that imperial legionaires later discover)
I'm just curious if anyone else has applied this specific prohibition to their setting, or any other magical taboos? Necromancy is a common one. Do your authorities only outlaw certain spells? For instance, Animate Dead may be sacreligious, but False Life isn't hurting anyone. Or is all necromancy illegal due to its very nature? Maybe the Fly spell is illegal, because the presiding religion believes mortals ought not reach for the heavens. Let us know!
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| #2ChrisCarlsonMar 13, 2015 13:21:11 | Slowly dying from a stab wound in the gut ain't exactly a waltz in the park either... |
| #3arnwolf666Mar 13, 2015 13:58:54 | Magic is feared. People are terrified of spellcasters. A wizard woud never walk into a village or town and admit that he is a wizard. Even doing good he would be feared and people afraid to interact or socialize with him. He would either be socially ostracized or the villagers would get the pitchforks to drive out the evil demon conjuring wizard who summons spells from the depths of hell. Same for Bards, same for Druids. Clerics are accepted only if it is of an accepted religion in the community, and would generally be fearful and wary of a cleric they did not know or has not lived in the community for a while. |
| #4cowleymenMar 13, 2015 14:21:21 | it really depends on the level of magic I have in the setting. IN low magic setting, any arcanist is feared, or at least inspires a fair amount of uneasy respect, from locals that dont know them well. So if an evil magic user starts causing problems, the only resource is for lords of the land to find someone willing and able to deal with it on their behave.
In more moderate worlds, that see low level magic (levels 1-3 of 5e) as uncommon, but not unheard of, except in extreme remote areas and seattlements, misuse of magic is seen as the same as running around hacking at any one alive, and larger cities have ways of imprisoning those that know magic. |
| #5SynjinMar 13, 2015 14:30:24 |
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| (Reply to #2)Farmer42 |
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| #7VahnyuMar 13, 2015 15:03:27 | I can't view Magic as anything but supercommon. If a PC can do it, there's a proportionate amount of NPCs who can also do it, provided that there's enough people on that level.
Level 1-4 > 10'000'000'000 Level 5-8 > 100'000'000 Level 9-12 > 1'000'000 Level 13-16 > 10'000 Level 17-20 > 100
Thus, not counting subclasses, there's at least 12 classes, with Bard, Cleric, Druid, Paladin, Ranger, Warlock, and Wizard as the spellcasters. That's 7 out of 12, meaning that more than half of these people are expected to be spellcasters, with only slightly less than half of these being full casters. |
| #8feartheminotaurMar 13, 2015 15:25:02 | I use the 'guild system', similar to historic guilds.
This gives players an instant back story (and a way for me to work in contacts, friends, enemies). Players have to find and negotiate magic purchases, (just like the rogue must make contacts instead of saying "I know the local guild contact who can make us fake papers"). The consequences of magic being available to anyone is too great for society to handle; hence the strict regulation of it.
Also, the guild system helps introduce "new" spells (example: new content like the Elemental Evil guide is available when a Guild member 'discovers' them) and keeps most magic users and clerics to a lower level - just like the real guild system quashed innovation and stuck most members in journeyman status longer than their skills would otherwise dictate.
Generally, arcane magic use is restricted to members of the mage's guild, divine magic to the church. Anyone caught using either without being a member is subject to (sometimes harsh) penalty.
The mage guild regulates what magic can be used, and for what - a code of magic conduct, essentially. They even have their own judicial system to judge, fine, or punish transgressions. Example: "offensive spells" such as fireball are reserved for mages who are in the militia, town guard, army, etc. Using any such magic, which is any damaging spell, against another person without legal backing is strictly forbidden and subject to the death penalty.
The church is the same; only they will make exception for those 'blessed by the gods'. The church is stricter as to what spells can be used; only those in line with the church's teachings can be prayed for (or are granted by the gods). Example: Kelevmor clerics cannot pray for, or prepare, protection from good. Failure to abide by the church's code of magical conduct is immediate excommunication and loss of spells.
The mage guild will not sell scrolls or potions to any non member. The church will sell potions of healing only to non-members. Members have access to guild resources. Obviously the very rich and powerful can skirt the proscription, and there are those unscrupulous types that will break the guild code for coin.
Outsider magic - druids, rangers, warlocks, and sorcerers - exists, but isn't prevelant, or allowed, in any major population center (rangers and druids would never enter cities anyway, sorcerers and warlocks are rare).
The specific guild details and restrictions I leave to the players. The party cleric has decided that as a Cleric of Life, no damaging spells are allowed and has an intricate code of magic associated with the church (like a 10 page Word document intricate). The party sorcerer/warlock, a guild member pretending to be a mage, is in a guild where magic that bestows 'false life' (animate dead, animate object) is forbidden and transmutations or illusions using shadow material can only be undertaken with guild permission.
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| #9MechaPilotMar 14, 2015 10:29:20 | @OP:
It depends on the era in question.
Religious magic is usually seen as perfectly acceptable. However, there was a time in my setting where it was not. In that time, religious magic was thought of as a fools bargain: trading your life away in service to some narcissist who demands to be worshipped in exchange for a grant of power. Arcane magic was considered real magic, and religious magic was looked down upon in much the same way that warlocks may be looked down on by others in other settings.
Arcane magic was seen as acceptable, then as the awesome wave of the future whose widespread use will revolutionize the lives of all, and then it fell out of favor and its practitioners became persecuted. During the 3e days, I even converted a paladin to a mage hunter class (dispel magic instead of curing diseases, magic resistance, smite arcane, turning summoned creatures instead of undead, the works).
During the time that arcane magic was the bees' knees, practitioners of religious magic who were recognized as such could expect to be openly mocked, thought of as fools, or even have their holy symbols defaced.
During the time that arcane magic fell to persecution, practitioners of arcane magic who were recognized as such could expect fearful/hateful reactions from just about everyone, up to and including being thrown out of town, burned at the stake, or sacrificed to the gods as proof that people had repented from what most religious orders refer to as the "arcane heresy."
This attitude is cultural, existing only among the races that are not inherently magical. So, the elves and dwarves in my setting don't take issue with arcane magic (although there is a time, after which, dwarves are not able to use traditional arcane magic. Gnomes still are, and they are actually seen as an offshoot of the dwarven race. How and why the gnomes kept the ability to use magic is unknown, and the dwarves treat them with suspicion).
It's also worth noting that magical sacrifice is a thing in my setting. You can sacrifice an animal or person as part of a spell to magnify the effect. In the case of raising the dead, you actually must sacrifice the life of one person to restore the life of another. |
| #10draegnMar 14, 2015 12:03:25 | Arcane magic is rare in our world. The home city our players dwell at, including them has only 14 arcane casters. There are a few more psuedo/apprentice alchemist midwife types (those who grind bat wings and pluck eyes from newts) around under the other casters. The three main NPC casters either work for the city, cater to the nobles, or trade in exotic trinkets. There are laws against "unlawful" use of magic, seldom broken, for, the suspect list is rather small when compared to normal mundane thievery.
Divine magic is handled by the churches. While they may disagree on certain aspects they have a general consenus on what they want people not to do within the city. No calling on a fiend through use of rituals.
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| #11arnwolf666Mar 15, 2015 5:20:20 | In my settings common folk don't know the difference between arcane and divine magic. |
| #12Mephi1234Mar 15, 2015 6:26:08 | To start with, let me say that "magic" is divided into eight, depending on class. Paladin magic is considered different from cleric magic. Ranger magic is not druid magic, they're different arts. Sorcerer, wizard, warlock, and bards don't use arcane magic, they use wizardry, sorcery, witchcraft, and bardcraft (sometimes called True Name magic). Psionics and alchemists are a series of subclasses for various other classes, instead of just two new classes.
My setting (which is only a single Australia-sized continent) is split into five, and dominated by Human (includes aasimar, tieflings, and halflings), Elf (half-, high, wood, and dark), Dwarf (hill, mountain, half-orc), Gnome (forest, mountain, deep, warforged), and Dragonborn (plus genasi)cultures.
The gnome cities are highly advanced, with a heavy reliance on wizardry and artifice everywhere. The society is based on magi-tech, highly advanced (Eberron level), with scorn towards all other forms of magic. Some, such as bardcraft and witchcraft, are actually tolerated more than others, given their emphasis on knowledge, while shamanistic and faith based magics are looked at with outright pity and scorn, to the point any business associated with them often can't find any gnome customers.
Human culture, on the other hand, is the exact opposite. Its also the only group that believes in a difference between "divine" and "arcane" magic. Their civilization is highly class concious, with the ruling aasimar class ruling with literal divine right, a high emphasis on clerics and paladins at the Noble level. Bards are often tolerated as more "eccentric" nobles interested in more ecclastic persuits. Average humans and halflings make up the middle to lower classes. Much like the upper class, they are highly religious, often only allowing divine magics - clerics, paladins, rangers, druids, and the occasional bard. Non-magical Fighters and Rogues also appear, often in the City Watch (or the Royalty's spy ring), but never as Eldritch Knights or Arcane Tricksters. Arcane (everyone else) magic is flat out unlawful for humans, considered a slight upon the gods. At the lowest level, you do have tieflings and other so-called demi-humans. This oppressed group has more than a few members who actively engage in unlawful magics for the specific reason of surviving (and even thriving) in a world that turns their back on them. Areas where they hold sway tend to be dangerous towards divine practicioners.
Dwarves and orcs, in this setting, actually intermingled to the point they've combined into a single war-like race. Combining the orcs thirst for blood and conquest with dwarven discipline, this culture actually has a strong military tradition, and is actually pretty open about any form of magical practice, with one caveat. It has to involve military applications, preferably something obviously so. Evokers, alchemists, and transmuters are encouraged, while more celebral diviners, enchanters, and illusionists are mocked. War (and even Death!) clerics are beloved, while Life and Knowledge less so.
Elven culture is made up of the Celestial Court, so named for the four Courts that dominate the fey lands. Dawn Court (made up of half-elves, though considered to be fully elf by all), focus on inspirational magic, such as bardcraft and paladin magic. Noon Court is ruled by the high elves, and their wizardry. Dusk Court is devised of the wood elves, whom are founded on druids and rangers. Last, is the Night Court, comprised of the drow, and employ witchcraft, and actually a surpring amount of monks. The four serve as a balance, with each ruling during their own people. One of the more interesting aspects is that being a member of each Court is a voluntary decision, instead of a biological one. So, its possible for a dark-elf to become a high-elf, or wood-, or half- by shifting their allegence. The fey magics of the Courts actually shifts the appearance and innate abilities of each member.
Lastly, we have the dragonborn (who are heavily houseruled). Dragons of this world are considered to be intimately tied to the six energy types, and bear a strong connection the four elemental planes as well as the positive/negative energy ones. There's kind of a kharmic cycle going on with the dragon kin, where kobalds, dragonborn, actual dragons, and dragon gods work in a cycle, up and down. Building kharma allows one to undergo a form of crystalis, evolving from one form into another, kind of like larval stage. Their hoard plays a part, as does their innate magic. Dragon blooded seek to understand their connection to the elements and grow it, and any magic or discipline that does so is highly cherished. Not quite sure how the genasi fit in yet, but they will somehow.
The undead serve as a sixth race, or so the more intellegent of them claim. Needless to say what magic they encourage. |
| #13Mephi1234Mar 15, 2015 6:57:38 | I should mention that my world was created with the express purpose of exploring different races in depth within the D&D framework, and removing the Good / Evil Race biases. So, while the PCs can be whatever they want, it will engender certain prejudices and reactions from different people. The cultures are kinda stereotypical for that specific reason - so we can explore variations as the exceptions.
It also kind of created a kind of "mix a bunch of different settings together" atmosphere. Humans reflect a typical god-heavy world like Greyhawk or similar, the undead Ravenloft-esk, dwarves to a Atlas-style feel, and so on. |
| #14OrwellianHaggisMar 15, 2015 7:05:14 | I love your take on this issue, Nevvur. I'll try to incorporate it in my games in future. I'm always trying to push the "not everything is evil" issue. |
| #15ChaosmancerMar 15, 2015 9:59:19 | @Mephi1234
That is very awesome. I especially love using the Aasamir as rulers.
My one question comes in with Lfe domain and dwarves. MEdical care is an integral part of any army that isn't going to destroy itself in the long run. Why does this faction seem to spurn the best healing magic then?
I'm really curious as to the reason because some of your ideas are similiar to things in my homebrew and it's a question I'm struggling with in my orc culture that spurns all magic (even though all women are spellcasters... yeah, base orc society is not pleasant) |
| #16abs1nthMar 15, 2015 13:50:29 |
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| #17cowleymenMar 15, 2015 19:03:19 |
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| #18Ralif_RedhammerMar 16, 2015 7:37:26 | In my current homebrew, much of the etiquette is based on whether you are inside or outside. It is considered very bad form to cast a spell inside someone’s house without asking their permission (it’s also bad form to draw a weapon, for that matter). But doing so outside is considered fair game. For this reason, merchants set up booths outside, to show that their goods are legitimate and that they fear no detection spells being cast on their merchandise. |
| #19ChrisTheSMar 16, 2015 10:38:06 | In my old Eberron game, having an adventuring company letter of marque was essentially a legal release to do pretty much all of the more sociopathic things that adventurers tend to do, as long as they didn't do it to any fine upstanding citizens (or were able to produce legal proof that 'he was a bad guy, yerroner, I swear!'). |
| #20VahnyuMar 16, 2015 11:39:35 |
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| #21OrethalionMar 16, 2015 12:12:00 |
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| #22VahnyuMar 16, 2015 12:49:33 |
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| #23OrethalionMar 16, 2015 13:59:12 |
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| #24VahnyuMar 16, 2015 14:26:02 |
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| #25OrethalionMar 16, 2015 16:05:37 |
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| (Reply to #25)arnwolf666 |
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| #27VahnyuMar 16, 2015 16:33:55 |
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| #28OrethalionMar 16, 2015 16:36:52 |
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| #29VahnyuMar 16, 2015 16:47:31 |
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| #30OrethalionMar 16, 2015 16:59:03 |
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| #31BrimleydowerMar 17, 2015 4:08:26 | Granted, the circumstance that follows was not under 5E rules, but there was a particular game where we PCs were laying siege to a city. We elected to try and starve them out instead of a direct assault. DM did a quick tally of divine casters in the city and figured out they could provide food and water for the city indefinitely (elected not to unleash that bit of meta-lameness on us, thankfully). I doubt it's even applicable in 5E (don't have the book in front of me atm) but in certain cities of certain settings playing certain editions, it's a tenable arrangement. |
| #32Tony_VargasMar 17, 2015 18:59:56 |
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