Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Helaman Oct 25, 2014 7:22:42	Just got the new PHB and watched a few YouTube vids out there.   One thing that seems to have popped out for me was Dex as Dmg. In many ways thats a fun thing and something that I believe was a component of 4e (barely played it so I forget) but it seems as dex gives initiative, a few skills, AC bonus, more commonly used as a 'Save' criteria and to hit with missile weapons (if I missed anything let me know) I am seeing Strength as less viable of an option when creating characters.   Am I missing any thing in saying that? Has anyone anything they use to make it more even or does the game system balance it out without house rules etc? I'd prefer there be some more parity.   *Its been a very long time since I've posted here - not since SAGA SW went away. I did a search under "Dexterity Build' and 'Dexterity better than Strength' but didnt see anything I could tack on to. If there are other threads on this, please forgive and throw me a link or two to chase.
#2 kalil Oct 25, 2014 7:31:02	This has ben discussed numerous times. I think the general consensus is that strength builds come up slighly ahead in damage but dex builds have other perks, such as skills, initiative and long range attacks.
#3 mellored Oct 25, 2014 7:36:59	Str weapons deal extra damage. Heavy armor provides more AC then light.  Without needing 20 Str. Str also allows you to knocking people prone, grappling, and disarm, which is actually useful in this edtion.   Overall, Dex is probably slightly stronger because of inititive, but there's a reasonable amount of parity.
#4 Rastapopoulos Oct 25, 2014 9:21:23	Str builds should do slightly more average damage but nothing to rock your socks off over Dex.   Dex, however, in general offers a lot more benefit for other stuff in the game than Str.  Dex saves are often much more relevant than Str, plenty of Dex skills are nice (str only has athletics I think), there is Initiative which is Dex, bonus to AC, etc.    Mello... you can still use heavy armor with high Dex. And you have more room for maleability with a high Dex. Say you're wearing a plate and find a magical Leather armor with a neat bonus or effect. You can switch to it without decrasing you AC much (or at all) while the low-Dex guy would take quite a hit on his AC from switching to Leather.
#5 Hurin88 Oct 25, 2014 10:24:56	Dex does seem to be superior. It should not be used for damage.
#6 GladiusLegis Oct 25, 2014 10:46:47	Rastapopoulos wrote:
#7 Zardnaar Oct 25, 2014 11:04:44	If feats are not used dex is out right better. If feats are used great weapon master, shield master, and maybe hgeavy armor mastery and mounted keep strength ahead.
#8 h347h50 Oct 25, 2014 11:35:00	Strength is the best damage, and best tanks.  Strength based 2 handers can do roughly 50% more DPR than a dex based fighter. Damage reduction from heavy armor master puts every other armor type to shame.(With out the feat the other types are arguably better due to stealth)   Dex is well rounded but has no focus. Poor strength saves are a big no no for melee focused warriors in this edition so not having a high one is a much bigger disadvantage than having a high dex is an advantage.
#9 h347h50 Oct 25, 2014 11:36:52	Zardnaar wrote:
#10 Zardnaar Oct 25, 2014 12:59:15	h347h50 wrote:
#11 Zardnaar Oct 25, 2014 12:59:15	h347h50 wrote:
#12 Rhenny Oct 25, 2014 13:12:20	In the group that I DM, 4 of the 5 PCs have 10 or less Strength.   The fighter is a Dex Battlemaster with a 9 Strength.  She was nearly killed when a giant spider caught her in a web and attacked her twice before she could break free (with the help of the wizard who helped to cut the fighter out).   Too many Dex PCs in 1 party isn't optimized.
#13 UngeheuerLich Oct 25, 2014 14:24:13	Even if dex looks better at first glance, you can easily do with lower scores there. Most probably your best bet is one of both stats 16+ and the other at 14 or 15 (14 dex or 15 Str) With low strength, you are finding yourself on the ground more often than you wish. You can well defend vs grappling, but you can´t initiate it well. So both stats are useful. When you are playing with feats, a str fighter can much more easily afford feats earlier in his career, because on a dexterity build it is more or less mandatory to keep up dexterity if front line fighting is your main priority.   So without feats, dex and str are about equal. With feats, the str fighter is way ahead in melee. A bow user can get away with high dex and low strength and can even take very good feats, because thanks to his fighting style and being out of melee allows him to not raise dexterity with all his ability increases.
#14 Rastapopoulos Oct 25, 2014 14:42:16	GladiusLegis wrote:
#15 Zardnaar Oct 25, 2014 15:11:49	The -5/+10 is easily mitigated via the rest of the party assuming they are smart enough to build around it and by that I mean faerie fire, bless or the shield mastery feat to enable advantage. Dex vs strengh is about the same assuming the strength user takes a two handed weapon andthe dex user takes a rapier+duelist except the dex user has +1 AC.    Strength may be a biot better for gish type PCs as well as a cleric for example wants to boost wisdom in most cases so will not have the luxury of boosting dex to 20 like a rogue or dex based fighter.
#16 Rastapopoulos Oct 25, 2014 17:20:43	Zardnaar wrote:
#17 GladiusLegis Oct 25, 2014 22:31:24	Rastapopoulos wrote:
#18 mellored Oct 26, 2014 8:32:15	You can take the mobile feat to counter the penalty.
#19 Zardnaar Oct 26, 2014 12:49:18	Rastapopoulos wrote:
(Reply to #14) Timborama	Rastapopoulos wrote:
#21 Lashan Oct 27, 2014 9:19:04	Aren't you required to use a FINESSE weapon to get the Dex bonus?  That limits your weapon types.  That means less options in magic weapon loot.  Also, don't monsters and such have resistance to things?  If everyone is poking someone with a rapier and you need that crushing damage, you might be screwed.
#22 mellored Oct 27, 2014 10:18:21	Lashan wrote:
#23 Eric888 Oct 27, 2014 13:54:37	To be fair, it is difficult to form a lot of opinions until we see the magic items in the DMG.   Rapiers seem right now to be only slightly inferior to longswords (piercing resistance is a thing), but the DMG might have no special rapiers, but be lousy with special long swords (flametongue, defender, etc.) Similarly magic heavy armor might offer more bonuses for a melee fighter than lighter types, making the +1 AC only the tip of the iceberg.   Its all theoritcal, but I am withholding judgement.