Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 BlackScarPaladin Aug 15, 2014 23:32:00	Okay, so I'm trying to make a dracoform PC race, and I'm not sure how to go about it; I know I want it to be Medium, have a bonus to Charisma (because of course it has to be good at dragonblood sorcery), and while flight isn't necessary, it would be nice.  I'm doing this so one of my players can play what he wants to, and since this is a homebrew setting ANYWAY, balance is the only concern.  Playing a dragonborn doesn't appeal to him, but I'm thinking we can use it as a guideline to assist in building this race.  Building races is my weakest point as a DM, and that's why I'm coming here for help.  Anyone care to assist in this matter?
#2 Arawn76 Aug 16, 2014 0:36:22	What does he want that the Dragonborn doesn't give him?
#3 Swamp_slug Aug 16, 2014 0:41:49	What is it about being a dragonborn doesn't appeal to your player?
#4 silentdante Aug 16, 2014 0:52:39	what class does the person want to play. i would say if you wanted to make it quick, take the sorcerrer dragon herritage powers and make it a race, where the things still unlock per level as the character "ages" sure it might be unbalanced, but your the DM so you know what to look out for either way. this way he gets natural dragon armor, flight, an acestry damage type. if he also wants a breath weapon, give him one at 6th level instead of the "spell" thing the sorcerrer would get beause if he plays a class without spells it would be useless.   so based on dragonborn but with warlock dragon herritage powers would be:   stat bonus (your choice) a +2 or 2 +1's speed is 30' no flying until 14th level when he grows his wings" if he REALLY wans to fly at 1st level just say he can fly 30' but not higher then 10\ so that he doesn't have floating above shennanagins. he choose draconic ancestry as per dragonborn/sorcerrer he gets dragon armor at 1st lvl (13ac +dex) per sorcerrer from scales (which is useless if he wears armor for a class anyways) breath weapon at 6th lvl or 4th lvl your choice, and use it based on dragonborn table. if you dont give flight at 1st level, give it per the sorcerrer at lvl 12-14. and damage resistence for the dragon type he chooses fromt he dragonborn table. (if you want you can give him the lvl 18 sorcerrer power at lvl 16-18 also but i think whats above is enough)   otherwise if he just wants to play a sorcerrer problem solved, haha, really it depends what powers he thinks he should hae at 1st level and what he will "whine" about not having cause he wants to play his own dragon race.
#5 seti Aug 16, 2014 4:47:35	So...You have a person who wants to play a Dragonborn, but doesn't want to play a Dragonborn?   Umm...ok. Just copy the dragonborn stats, and call it something else, lol. I reflavored them as tailless lizardmen without a swim speed in the homebrew setting, and made their breath weapon a spit attack. ie: They hock a loogie that either acts like poison, acid, napalm, or a wierd freezing gel (no electricity); chosen at character creation.    Maybe consider starting with the class and background this person wants to play, and work the race after; so then at least he or she gets the stat bonuses they want. Then try to figure out if this PC is a rarity, unique, or a member of a whole populous race/culture you now have to write into your setting. Making up a whole race from scratch is a time consuming and difficult thing to do, in my experience. You also have to ask yourself, why does my game need this? Doesn't D&D RAW already fulfill the needs of my players and campaign?   I wouldn't give a PC flight, aside from spells (with their limitations) or maybe a magic item/one use potion, however. Flight is just too much power to just have for free, especially at level one, IMO...And it also can be a pain to DM in combat. Nerfed 4e flight (like the Heroes of the Feywild's Pixie PC race) is even worse...
#6 souldoubt Aug 16, 2014 7:08:09	Yeah, I'm confused.  You describe what your player wants, which is basically dragonborn (+Cha dragonoid race), and then say your player doesn't want to play a dragonborn.  You're going to have to be more specific about what the player doesn't like about dragonborn.  I can't think of any mechanical reason to reject dragonborn based on what you say your player wants, so all I can suggest at this point is just reflavor dragonborn.
#7 Mephi1234 Aug 16, 2014 7:45:15	If the player doesn't like the dragonborn, its entirely possible they don't like it because of the dragonborn race benefits, which, if we are completely honest, aren't exactly the world's greatest.     While dragon's breath is cool and evocative... the current version isn't exactly better than a level 2 spell.    Sorcerers, at level 6, can have elemental resistance, which overlaps with dragonborn elemental resistance.      The breath weapon triggers off Constitution, while the race itself is +2 Strength (something that the sorcerer doesn't want).        Tieflings are arguably better at being a sorcerer than the dragonborn!   At least their race benefits work with the red dragon bloodline class benefits!    Even as paladins, dragonborn are kind of lackluster, since the damage with weapons generally oupace the damage from the breath, and they're not once-an-encounter shots.   So, from this angle, I think the problem comes from a lack of good racial benefits that fail to synergize well with the sorcerer.   Is that about right?   If I had to design a new dragonborn race, I would go something like this:   So, any combination of 3 points over Strength, Constitution, and Charisma (none over 2).    Rewrite dragon's breath into a spell; add a cantrip (one associated with breath type, probably) and 2nd sorcerer spell, maybe something to do with fear?   Keep the elemental resistance.    This lets the dragon work breath off spell slots.   In 3 and 4, dragons were good with being fighters, paladins, sorcerers, barbarians (thaneborn, now berzerker), and heavy-inspiration war bards.       EDIT - if the player is disillusioned over the whole dragonborn-sorcerer thing, one of the best fixes we could discuss involve making the sorcerer into something unqiue instead of alternative wizards, how its very close to just being "metamagic wizard."
#8 BlackScarPaladin Aug 16, 2014 7:49:40	Actually it's dragonborn's humanity that he dislikes. He wants the challenge of playing a quadrupedal predator in a world that belongs to bipeds. He wants to play a dragon, and I'm interested to see what he does with it. No hands, no standard gear.
#9 Mephi1234 Aug 16, 2014 8:00:00	Personallly, I'd just tell him to go moon druid.    The "challenges" the character faces will be mostly social (until we hit polymorph) if he takes a caster class (unless you rule he can't make the hand gestures).   For a martial or gish class, he'd be able to work fine if his race had some kind of claws or bite attack.    Just make sure his AC stays standard with any other unarmored characters like barbarian or monk (or mage armors).      EDIT - while magic items happen, they're not exactly necessary for the math to work out, and its not exactly hard to fit rings or bracers onto someone.
#10 edwin_su Aug 16, 2014 7:59:18	Mephi1234 wrote:
#11 Mephi1234 Aug 16, 2014 8:34:48	Spellscale are just a +Charisma race with dragon fluff and affinity for sorcerer class.    We already have it.    Closer would be the 3.x half-dragon template.
#12 Kalani Aug 16, 2014 9:59:32	BlackScarPaladin wrote:
#13 Marandahir Aug 16, 2014 10:02:12	Half-Dragon template is back in the Monster Manual this edition.  Maybe next month it'll offer some insight to think about homebrewing a Half-Dragon PC.
#14 souldoubt Aug 16, 2014 15:48:55	BlackScarPaladin wrote:
#15 Dunther_the_Great Aug 16, 2014 18:09:28	souldoubt wrote:
#16 5Shilling Aug 17, 2014 10:14:47	I would start with the rules for a Dragonborne PC and make some small tweaks from there.