Now this is my own personal opinion of the app so you may agree or disagree. I think they've done a poor job because the app is basically just quick links to either Facebook or the Wizards website.
I was hoping the app itself would contain it's own database that would allow me to read the articles while staying in the app. I don't want to have to open a new browser page for each one I click on. Not to mention the lack of game content and rather poor articles. I would rather pay for good quality than to get piss poor stuff for free.
That's the question I have: In their words, this is the spiritual successor to Dragon Magazine-- How are they s'posed to provide quality game content, for free?
The math simply doesn't add up. A staff (of editors, columnists, whatnot) has to be paid. The writers and artists (most of which I assume will be freelance, but there's certain to be a few from in-house) all must be paid for their time and effort.
Unless it's gonna amount to one big add each time. That, I can see getting for free.
XunValDorl_of_HouseKilsek wrote:
Azzy1974 wrote:
Artifact wrote:
RCanine wrote:
RCanine wrote:
Anyone can go to their public library and use the internet for free.
The internet does not require you to have a provider or pay a monthly service. The internet is the internet, and is provided freely by public works (who, yes, do pay for this, but because they are publically owned, despite the private company getting money from the usage, the people themselves don't feel the impact).
Now, you're welcome to purchase a device and an internet service plan. But that doesn't mean other people can't get it for free.
I hope it will become more useful in the long run. Just now it does not cost a single cent and gives a little bit... maybe that changes.
The first....many...years of the original Dragon magazine were not very good.
Marandahir wrote:
RCanine wrote:
RCanine wrote:
Mistwell wrote:
Azzy1974 wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
RCanine wrote:
Mirtek wrote:
Shasarak wrote:
DoctorBadWolf wrote:
Dragon+ is free and useless for the same reason: It's just an advertisement.
Sure, you have to download it as an app and give it permission to sell you things, but most of the "articles" were just fluff pieces to promote the MMO, new boardgame, or upcoming Swordcoast Legends video game. If Hasbro is "smart" then the funding for Dragon+ is coming almost completely from their limited D&D marketing budget. The mistake is that they named it Dragon+, and intentionally reminded us of the Dragon Magazine that this is not.
Edit: To be clear, Dragon+ is part of a recent trend where many companies attempt to entice consumers to download an app as a means to directly target those consumers with advertisements through push notifications. Basically it's a glorified mailing list that's made more attractive through the trappings of a mobile app. Not unlike how some manufacturing catalogues are made to resemble glossy magazines or other periodicals.
Reinhart wrote:
Marandahir wrote:
DoctorBadWolf wrote:
I would really like to be able to read it on my PC without having to use an android or ios emulator.
DoctorBadWolf wrote:
It's hardly affecting push notifications. At least, I haven't gotten any push notifications from it since I downloaded it. And most of the "daily articles" are less advertisements than the same articles on the website; the monthly magazine portion has more advertisements, but those by their nature don't give push notifications because they require you to download the issue and read it.
In any case, I'm okay with those advertisements. That's the sort of stuff that was in the original magazine when it was paper. I EXPECT advertisements in a magazine. People seem to be forgetting what Dragon was like before it became an online subscription service that was just game-additions during 4e. It was a magazine, and that's what Dragon+ is – only an app-based magazine.
I'm not really a big fan of the first issue. There wasn't a lot that I really felt was noeworthy, though I think releasing it as an app is the best way to make sure it stays relevant to new users (despite the fact I liked the older releases of Dungeon, etc.)
But either way, is there any kind of release schedule for Dragon+? Like, it comes out the 3rd of every month, or something like that?
Marandahir wrote:
DM_Kane wrote:
Reinhart wrote:
If it's being hailed as basically the digital version of Dragon mag then I expect it to be like it.
Did they say it was supposed to be the "digital version of Dragon magazine", or that it was the successor to Dragon magazine?
Reinhart wrote:
They said successor.
I wish it was monthly. Sad that it's bi-monthly.
But I think articles that tie-into various products make a lot of sense. But the comic is hardly a tie-in product. The Goliath article is an expansion of the flavour-text in the Goliath write-up in the Elemental Evil Player's Guide (which, I think, is one of the most fabulous parts of the issue). The trinkets isn't an advertisement beyond it being part of the Elemental Evil season (and thus, by its very nature, an advertisement for Princes of the Apocalypse and this season of D&D Encounters, Expeditions, and Epics) – and if you call that an advertisement, you might as well call every single bit of material they release this edition an advertisement, since they're carefully tying in their products to each other. It's not about advertisements, it's about aligning their various products to build up excitement for each storyline. I know well that they want us to purchase their products, but they're selling a story concept. They're selling us on tools for adventuring against Elemental Evil, through the P&P RPG game, through the Adventure System board game, and through the various video games. That's their business strategy. It's a good one. But at the core of it is a story that they're trying to sell us on. That's what flavour articles are. Story. What's wrong with enjoying the story?
XunValDorl_of_HouseKilsek wrote:
Marandahir wrote:
Marandahir wrote:
smacintush wrote:
XunValDorl_of_HouseKilsek wrote:
DoctorBadWolf wrote:
That's their business strategy. It's a good one. But at the core of it is a story that they're trying to sell us on. That's what flavour articles are. Story. What's wrong with enjoying the story?
Nothing wrong with enjoying the story, but so far the story isn't very enjoyable for me. Partly because many of the "story" aspects are a mess of cross-product placement with little to contribute to my tabletop experience. Part of business strategy is execution and based on the reaction that it's getting outside of these forums, especially on facebook and twitter, the execution Dragon+ is so far deeply flawed. This isn't as bad as their promotion of Fantasy Grounds after Dungeonscape imploded, but it's really nothing I can sing praise about either. It's basically an underfunded, understaffed team struggling to shift from RPG development to brand management. That means they have to pay lip-service to roleplayers while building awareness of other people's liscensed products.
The problem is, who is Dragon+ for? It's not for players of the Neverwinter and D&DO MMO's because there's no vector in those games for them to find out about Dragon+, and the app has very little to add to their gaming experience. It's not really for the people who are mostly interested in the D&D boardgames for the same reasons. Swordcoast Legends isn't really based on D&D except in setting, so I'm not sure my interest in the D&D RPG directly translates to that either. So what is supposed to attract me, as a roleplayer, when these products dominate the "pages"?
That's why the best material from the first issue, in my opinion, was the article on Goliaths, followed by a little of the material on the Elemental Cults and Adventure League Factions. Because those could be relevant to someone actually playing a D&D tabletop RPG. But the majority of the stuff basically felt like "You're not really here for D&D are you? How about we just introduce a confusing mess of video games and toys that share our brand name!"
XunValDorl_of_HouseKilsek wrote:
Marandahir wrote:
XunValDorl_of_HouseKilsek wrote:
I haven't posted on these forums in quite some time, but I thought I'd add a positive note. My group switched over to playing a homebrew RPG after the fall of 4th edition, occasionally playing Pathfinder or D&D. Obviously, a lot of changes have happened to the game and the product since then. Long story short, I bought the new PHB and have kind of just been watching from the sidelines.
One of my biggest complaints about 4th edition was that they couldn't seem to get a theme together that drew in all their product lines. I'll say this - they seem to be much closer to that these days. The Elemental Evil release has product for D&D, video game, board game, minis, and Gale Force 9 minis and game product. (There was no novel, but the novel line really seems to be on pause right now, much to my dismay.) I'm a board game player at heart, and I purchased the Elemental Evil game to play with my son. The two of us have enjoyed the other games in this line in the past. They made a lot of improvements to the gameplay this time and the mini selection is great. That got me interested in the story, so I saw that Dragon+ was free. I read through some of the articles and it got me interested enough to go buy the Princes of the Apocalypse Adventure. So, essentially, D+ being free sold me on the adventure.
Now, I'm not in any way comparing D+ to the old print Dragon or even the subscription-based model in 4th edition (which was never sustainable). I think it's primary purposes are to: 1) Generate interest in the current storyline, 2) Provide supplementary information for that storyline, and 3) Advertise the products associated with it and other D&D product. This may go against the original vision of Dragon, but I think it's very smart from a marketing perspective and I wouldn't have even known about many of the products and details without reading them there. The history article on the Temple of Elemental Evil was informative since I never played that adventure as well.
I'll make two final points. First, I think the 5th edition team is trying to create an atmosphere where the D&D Community doesn't feel like it's constantly having its pockets shaken out like in 4th edition. This is demonstrated by D+, but also by the giving away of free rules, players guides, and supplements online. At the end of the day, a D&D book costs in the range of $50, so it makes sense to give some stuff away and get someone on the fence to buy a product. Second, the D&D team is MUCH smaller, which means fewer individuals to generate content. If you look at the model they're using now, much of the work is outsourced, both in the electronic and print arenas. You have to look no further than the credits page of the Princes of the Apocalypse adventure to see this. Freelancing content and services like editing is now the norm in many fields like publishing and will allow Wizards to both ramp up production when things are good and weather the storm when sales are down. Unfortunately, it leaves fewer people sitting around writing articles, since they'd have to go out and pay for these from freelancers and probably pass on that cost. I'm in no way saying things are perfect now, but I was really mad after they threw out 4th edition, not because I thought the edition was that great, but because I had invested so much money and time. I like the directions they're taking lately. Whether they're good business decisions, only time will tell.
Enevhar_Aldarion wrote:
To say that they are most likely talking about D&D Expeditions specifically and not D&D Encounters nor the published books is not only speculation, but speculation based on your personal bias against the books since you didn't like them. Princes of the Apocalypse was DESIGNED around sandbox, and the April Survey spoke to that just as much as it spoke to Tyranny of Dragons. They only said that the Encounters adaptation of Hoard of the Dragon Queen did not score as highly as the Tyranny of Dragons Expeditions. That is a far cry from saying that the results suggest that we're not happy with the AP. In fact, saying "you're happy with the adventures we've published so far" is a generalized statement, meaning that we're happy with ALL the adventure formats - published, Encounters, Expeditions, Epics – but have a preference for sandbox style ones: i.e., any sandbox-style Expeditions as well as Princes of the Apocalypse, which they've said time and time again is a sandbox-style Adventure Book.
Marandahir wrote:
You can claim it's not a sandbox, but WotC has called it a sandbox-type adventure, and your dislike of it doesn't change their language – they use the term sandbox to refer to PotA and to what players want more of.
Your opinion is quite evident and we know what you don't like, but that doesn't mean that that is how WotC sees it. You may see it as a railroaded adventure, but it's an adventure that you can choose your direction on. For example, I'd direct you to the podcast discussion of it by the author, Rich Baker: http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/adventure-time-elemental-evil (jump to around 8:30 and listen from there). I'd also suggest the earlier podcast with Chris Tulach, http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/organized-play-elemental-evil, which refers to D&D Expeditions, and talks about certain adventures designed to be really sandboxy.
As you can see, they're using sandbox in a similar way to refer to these various types of adventures. You may not consider it sandboxy enough, but apparently WotC DOES consider it a sandbox, and for good reason: you choose the order you tackle the cults, and the balance of power changes quite a bit depending on how you go about taking on the cults. There are 4 potential "final bosses" to fight, even, depending on the course of your adventure. That's what a sandbox adventure is. Chris Tulach describes the design process pretty well in the second podcast I linked above – jump to 13:00 for that discussion. "Here's an area and all the stuff in the area, and here's a goal – go!" That's essentially what happens in PotA. "Two totally different groups made two toally different decisions and had two totally different experiences as well." That's their description of an Expedition from Tyranny of Dragons season, but it applies to PotA design just as much.
Ultimately, what this means for Dragon+ is that the tie-in stuff to the various products for each season has been effective. Whether you prefer D&D Expeditions or the Encounters/Published Adventures, the Adventure League Seasons have been popular enough for the tie-in stuff in Dragon+ to be a nice thing. Honestly, it's akin to the various themed-months at the end of the 4th Edition digital magazines.
XunValDorl_of_HouseKilsek wrote:
DoctorBadWolf wrote:
Agreed. But taxes also scale to your livelihood (though the obscenely rich still get breaks as well), and some people are "carried" by others.
There is a "true cost" behind a public library, but for all intents and purposes, the use of said library is free.
Reinhart wrote:
Marandahir wrote:
DoctorBadWolf wrote:
DoctorBadWolf wrote:
XunValDorl_of_HouseKilsek wrote:
XunValDorl_of_HouseKilsek wrote:
RCanine wrote:
Reinhart wrote:
DoctorBadWolf wrote:
LIbraries are free like Netflix is free. The differences being that paying for Netflix is voluntary, and the cost is obvious. Being forced to pay a hidden cost for open access ≠ "free".
RCanine wrote:
DoctorBadWolf wrote:
Reinhart wrote:
XunValDorl_of_HouseKilsek wrote:
I'm not sure why it's so important to you whether they started out with the intent to make a DnD licensed game. Either way, they started out to make a DnD-esque game. Had Bioware decided halfway through that Dragon Age should be directly a DnD game, rather than one in all but name, it wouldn't make it less a DnD game than had they started with that intention.
DoctorBadWolf wrote:
Last thing: Sorry to bog this thread down with my premature disappointment over SCL. I'm sure we've got better things to discuss.
Fair enough man. Like I said, we just approach all of this from a different angle.
DoctorBadWolf wrote:
RCanine wrote:
DoctorBadWolf wrote:
DoctorBadWolf wrote:
I just want to reiterate my claim about Dragon+ because I just received a notification on my Android phone about the newest issue of Dragon being available and yet it isn't there.
RCanine wrote: