Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 CthulhuPrime Jul 22, 2015 16:10:24	Why does the dragonborn not get an ac bonus similar to the sorcerer's dragon resilience trait? I feel they missing out.
#2 Hebitsuikaza Jul 22, 2015 16:24:31	It's really simple.   The Sorcerer classes needed a way to raise its AC in order to achieve an AC that would make them a balanced class. If you looked at all classes, you would notice a lot of them have some sort of AC-boosting feature. Some excuse involving dragon blood was pulled out of thin air and written in to explain where that AC bonus is coming from.    The Dragonborn is a standard race. As a standard race, it needs to be balanced with other standard races. The ability to spit magical energy was considered their primary defining feature and made as powerful as a 2nd level spell they can cast once per a day. That is a pretty significant power compared to anything any other race gets. That  used up most of the race's "build points" if you would and left them with no "build points" left to spend on other things.   Either be grateful that Dragonborn were even in the PHB at all... or be angry that WotC felt the most essential race to add to D&D was dragonpeople and that caused them to really nerf them down to the point of removing all their dragonness and turning them into ugly brown tailless lizardmen who get a breath ability once a day.
#3 pukunui Jul 22, 2015 16:36:52	Hebitsuikaza wrote:
#4 rampant Jul 22, 2015 21:35:14	Because not everyone needs dark vision. This was an issue in 3e, Everyone and their gorram dog had darkvision even when it made little or no sense because between creature types and lazy monster creation (Of course it needs to be able to work in the dark its a monster!) the only people that couldn't see in the dark were humans, locathah, and possibly one of the small races.
#5 pukunui Jul 22, 2015 22:14:48	I realize not every race needs darkvision. However, it would make sense for a race related to dragons to have it, don't you think?
#6 Vulf Jul 22, 2015 22:58:33	The Dragonborn in 4e were more thought out. They were a separate race from dragons, sharing only some similarities, but otherwise very much like the other humanoid races.   These 5th edition bastardized dragonborn are just the aborted phetuses from real dragon eggs. It would make sense for them to be more like dragons with tails, wings, innate magical spells and darkvision. I don't know why they thought anyone would want to play as a slave race.   I think 5th edition Dragonborn are actually Dire Kobolds.
#7 Hebitsuikaza Jul 22, 2015 22:55:39	pukunui wrote:
#8 pukunui Jul 22, 2015 23:01:15	Hebitsuikaza wrote:
#9 Vulf Jul 22, 2015 23:03:13	Hebitsuikaza wrote:
#10 Hebitsuikaza Jul 22, 2015 23:13:44	Vulf wrote:
#11 Kangodo Jul 23, 2015 4:39:28	This month I made an Elf Warlock Hexblade that uses dual wielding. Probably the only build in the game that benefits from the Elvish Weapon Training.   As to the OP's question: Because that would make Dragonborn too good.
(Reply to #6) rampant	Vulf wrote:
#13 Aerodus Jul 23, 2015 7:39:32	Kangodo wrote:
#14 Mechatarrasque Jul 23, 2015 8:06:53	I suspect there are 2 reasons.  The first is that they might not have decided on doing racial feats until PotA.  If they had, I suspect fire breath might have been moved to a racial feat and that would have left open space for an AC bonus and dark vision.  Why would they have trouble deciding on racial feats?  That brings us to my second suspected reason:  the racial arms race doesn't actually make anyone happy (and the devs know it).  "Why is his dragonborn better than my elf?" eventually leads us to regular humans getting +2 to all stats.   Given that the number of feats is low compared to previous editions, I think racial feats aren't significant contributors to the racial arms race.
#15 FFSAA Jul 23, 2015 8:44:50	rampant wrote:
#16 rampant Jul 23, 2015 8:51:32	Ah right I was counting lowlight vision in the 3e stuff. Although considering that lowlight worked on moonlit nights I'm more than comfortable saying it let you see in the dark, just not as deep a dark as darkvision let you penetrate.
#17 shintashi Jul 23, 2015 11:41:05	my wife keeps asking why are fire genasai the only ones with infravision/dark vision. I checked the Monster Manual and there is no logical reason actually, since all 4 parents have it.   to be honest, the dragonborn should get the scales AC modifier, or at least have a Racial Feat they can buy to "flex" out their dragon abilities. The problem with the existence of the sorcerer class is that it would overlap heavily with these dragon born racial traits, and the breath weapon already overlaps. Dragon born should probably be able to bite, and claw as well, like in the shifter races for the Ebberron supplement.   it is kind of silly that a human or elf who can also cast 9th level spells, has more dragon features in play than a dragonborn warrior. And here i am, defending this notion, when i don't even like the dragonborn concept. Thats crazy. People like me who don't even like an option shouldn't have to argue for its bonuses. That injustice, against the way things aught to be, it just does somethin to me.
#18 rampant Jul 23, 2015 14:02:05	Claw and bite are crappy racial powers.   Darkvision is overused, and last I checked genasi were part human, not pure elementals, so why should thay have all the features of their elemental side?
(Reply to #13) Vulf	Aerodus wrote:
(Reply to #18) shintashi	rampant wrote:
#21 rampant Jul 23, 2015 15:21:10	Nat armor is a maybe, but clawing and biting are rediculously situational and even then a limited number fo builds can use them with any expectation of competency.
#22 Aerodus Jul 23, 2015 18:06:58	Vulf wrote:
#23 rampant Jul 24, 2015 8:49:27	If the point is "Rah, dragons should get AC bonuses." Then I officially don't care.   If the point is "I think the D-born is underpowered, what about a dragon scale ability that boosts AC?" THen that's a much more interesting discussion. The d-born is  a touch sparse, but a lot depends on how useful that breath wepaon is at higher levels. My instinct would be to nix the energy resist if you wan tot install more features, it's a bit of a toss up how useful that ability is overall IMO so it's ripe for scrapping. Even if the D-born is UP I think it's not UP enough that we could get away with boosting it without giving up somehting, and the resitance is the kind of potentially potent but iffy probability power that eats design space for minimal returns.
#24 edwin_su Jul 24, 2015 10:23:00	shintashi wrote:
(Reply to #22) Vulf	Aerodus wrote:
(Reply to #4) arnwolf666	rampant wrote:
#27 rampant Jul 25, 2015 23:37:28	A large part of the problem is that lots of critters had it in the past, back in the old days when Elf was a character class, so it gets grandfathered in on just about everything.
#28 Chameleon-X Jul 26, 2015 15:16:13	If I were the designer for the Dragonborn for 5e, they would look more like this; Dragonborn Ability Score Improvement: +2 Strength, +1 Charisma Darkvision: blah blah see in the dark. Draconic Ancestry: You have draconic blood in your heritage. Your traits are based on the type of Dragon that is strongest in your bloodline; black, blue, brass, bronze, copper, gold, green, red, silver, or white. Draconic Resistence: You have resistance to the damage type associated with your dragon ancester. Dragon Breath: As a bonus action, you can breath a wave of elemental energy in a 15ft cone in front of you. Each creature in the cone must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw, or take 1d10 damage. The damage increases to 2d10 at 8th level, and 3d10 at 16th level. The damage is of the type associated with your dragon ancestor. Once you use this feature, you cannot do so again until you complete a short or long rest. Dragonborn Fury: You gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls while you are at half or less of your maximum hit points.
#29 Clutchbone Jul 27, 2015 10:13:58	Personally I think way too many races have darkvision as is. Six races in the PHB have it, vs 3 without, not to mention virtually every supplement race. It should be a special trait instead of the norm.   Back in my day we used torches to see in a dungeon, lit with good, honest fire! Nowadays, everyone and their humanoid cousin can see in the dark better than a bloody cat! I tell ya, there's just no room in this day and age for a human adventurer.
#30 Be3Al2 Jul 28, 2015 6:27:56	I liked the 4e Dragonborn and generally find the 5e version to be a well made conversion. What it possibly lacks is the extra survivability of the 4e version (an extra hit die usable only for healing, not for gaining max hit points, could have been a nice version). However, the problem I have with the 5e dragonborn is that while lots of races had low-light vision in 4e, they still needed a light source of some kind. I 5e I agree with those who complain about darkvsiion being too common and mostly removing the need of a light source in a party. The prevalence of darkvision had steered me to only making new characters that are not humans, halflings or dragonborn unless they have the light cantrip or can get the Devil's sight invocation of Warlocks. Reintroducing the low-light vision and nerfing a bunch of races would probably make me happy.