Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Rinfor Sep 01, 2014 18:14:13	Hi!   I think the druid in low lvls is too powerfull. At level 2 you can change to a CR 1 beast if you belong to the circle of the moon. You have two uses of the wild shape of an hour(1/2 lvl) that you recover in a short rest, so you can be a beast nearly always. And you can heal yourself as bonus action spending spell slots.   Brown bear is a cr1 beast with 34 hps, 2 atacks(+5 1d8+4 and +5 2d6+4), speed 40 fts... the only bad things it is its AC(11). This is a killing machine that can beat any lvl 2 fighter, barbarian, paladin... or other phisical warriors.   So... it's me or is wild shape ****ing overpowered in the first tier???
#2 Illithidbix Sep 01, 2014 18:44:59	It's pretty beefy yes. It does have a few drawbacks.   Low AC Can't cast spells (but you can maintain concentration on one previously cast).   I'm waiting to see how people actually find it in play before screaming for nerfs. Although my experience of a weaker form of the Moon Druid during the playtest was itself pretty convincing. (The playtest version had a far greater limitation on available shapes, couldn't self heal and only had 1 use of wildshape per rest until 8th level)       As a fix; Reduce Wildshapes to 1/Short or Long rest until level 8 (as it was in the playtest)   OR   A limit of 1 minute after shifting out of Beast Form to shift back in. To prevent shifting into a bear, then shifting immediately back in again as you loose all your bear hitpoints.   OR   Reduce CR. CR 1/2 for 2nd and 3rd level moon druids (Black Bears and Crocodiles) [Hell the Black bear still has 19 HP, like a 2nd level Fighter, but far lower AC and more reasonable attacks] CR 1 for 4-5 Druids (Brown Bears and Dire Wolves) CR 2 for level 6 etc (and continue with CR Level/3 from then on)   I'm wondering if we'll see this in the first errata.
#3 animeus Sep 01, 2014 18:44:36	Rinfor wrote:
#4 Chakravant Sep 01, 2014 18:55:18	Druids of the Moon certainly seem to have a nice blend of healing, damage soaking, melee damage, and ranged damage capabilities.  Is it OP?  I'm not sure.
#5 Leugren Sep 02, 2014 5:52:37	I predicted this thread!   Giant Hyena grants 45 HP at second level, but go with Dire Wolf for the win!
#6 Leugren Sep 01, 2014 22:26:00	Rinfor wrote:
(Reply to #5) Lokiron	Leugren wrote:
#8 kalil Sep 01, 2014 22:07:17	Even if it isnt OP now the genius "any beast" wording virtually guarantees that it will be. One of the major facepalms of 5e.
#9 Lord_Kyrion Sep 01, 2014 22:19:49	The complaint seems a little shortsighted. Maybe it could be said that they are above the curve at level 2, but they will be limited to those CR 1 forms until level 6, and at high levels they can never go above CR 6, which is surely less powerful than what a high level fighter can do.
#10 Leugren Sep 02, 2014 6:05:37	Lord_Kyrion wrote:
#11 RKVM Sep 01, 2014 23:00:33	Leugren wrote:
#12 Lord_Ventnor Sep 01, 2014 23:54:39	The thing that makes me sad is that Moon Druids can't ever turn into T-Rexes. Wildshape caps off at CR 6 beasts, and T-Rexes are a CR 8 beast.   I guess I'll have to content myself with being an Allosaurus if I want to eat faces.
#13 Leugren Sep 02, 2014 6:07:35	Rinfor wrote:
#14 LuthielValkire Nov 11, 2014 16:06:00	Hundreds of extra hit points per adventuring day makes this class easily the most tankish of the tanks. The low armor class is rather moot when you consider the fact that the Druid is simply wearing an hp shield over his usual AC digs.    So a level 2 Druid wild shaping giant hyena is getting 90 hp per short rest, on top of his usual 16 base or 6 times his base hp, or about the same as a 12-13th level bard, but better because the hp pool fully recharges with each short rest. Now that is a serious over-allocation of resources. This on top of a full caster chassis.    As the Druid levels, the situation just gets worse. Sure, some players come close to catching up in durability and some typically durable players may briefly surpass if optimized (fighter/barbarian), but by the time the Druid hits CR 6 he is summoning a 100 hp + shield with every wild shape -- accessing around 2-3 times the base hp of most fighters with each short rest.   At about this time, the strongest limitation to wild shape -- inability to cast -- drops. So at this point the Druid is a full caster able to full cast with far more in the way of hp resources than the characters on the front line.    Then, at level 20, the top is completely blown off as the moon circle Druid is now able to wild shape as a bonus action each and every round. This makes the Druid almost unkillable, giving it access to hundreds of extra hp every encounter while maintaining action economy. It's like gaining the benefits of mass heal on yourself two or three times an adventuring day together with all the other special benefits the form provides.   Overall, I would say this makes the Druids worse than their previous 3.5 incarnations. Sure, they can't damage spike like a fighter. But who needs damage spikes when you have unlimited hp?    How can you bring this back into the realm of near sanity?   1. Limit wild shape to once per short rest. 2. Back off moon Druid wild shape to CR 1 at 3rd level. 3. Allow wild shape twice per short rest at level 20 as a capstone along with the added ability to wild shape into a CR 7 creature.   This still makes Druids some of the most versatile AND tankiest characters in the game without completely blowing the top off. It gives them access to nastiest creatures at level 20. And, yes, they can still cast shape change once per day for the crazy encounters.
#15 Elfcrusher Nov 11, 2014 19:49:30	CAT IS FOR FITE
#16 paulstrait Nov 11, 2014 20:13:18	My players got to fight some giant scorpions last night, one PC died.  Comment from the moon druid: "cannot wait until I'm ninth level..."  Of course, by then, I suspect the giant scorpion will have lost some of its luster.  Still, three attacks to potentially deal 3d8+5d10+6 per round is not shabby.
(Reply to #15) danyc	Elfcrusher wrote:
#18 CCS Nov 11, 2014 20:56:45	Want to know an easy way to curtail wild shaping if you think somethings wrong with it? Go read the 1st sentence of the power. Pay particular attention to the last 5 words. And then enforce that. Problem solved.
(Reply to #18) trebor_rjf	CCS wrote:
#20 Mecheon Nov 12, 2014 3:27:54	trebor_rjf wrote:
#21 SEJerome Nov 12, 2014 9:27:20	trebor_rjf wrote:
(Reply to #19) CCS	trebor_rjf wrote:
#23 Cyber-Dave Nov 12, 2014 11:17:32	My 2 cents:   The druid is most definitively "over-powered" from level 2-4. The thing is, that is a very small range of levels, and most classes are more powerful than some other class for 1 or 2 levels at some point in their 20 level career. While the druid's peak comes early, it isn't really front loaded. By that I mean to say, if you only take 2 levels of druid, the benefits are not going to be great later in the game. So, people are not likely to dip intro druid for 2 levels. In order to keep the shape-shifting relevant, you need to keep taking levels of druid. By the time you start getting to level 5+, the druid is good, but it isn't the best character in the game. The fighter will be doing alot more damage than the druid, for example. The barbarian's overall "survivability and damage" tend to be more rounded than the druids. The druid does, between its shapes and ability to spend spell slots to heal, become the best "take damage and tank" character (though it will get hit a lot more than any other class who tanks). In doing so, however, it will be spending the same resources as a druid who is regularly healing the group. Its damage mitigation for the group via tanking instead of healing, which I find kind of cool. All in all, I don't think we are seeing a problem. I may need more time with a druid actually playing in my part (or playing a druid myself in some other group) to judge accurately, however, as all of this is theorycraft. I haven't had a druid in my party (or played a druid myself) since before release.
#24 IxidorRS Nov 12, 2014 11:28:36	Lord_Ventnor wrote:
(Reply to #23) OB1	Cyber-Dave wrote: