At level 1-4 the dual wielding halfing fighter seems competitivewith a fighter using the great sword style. At level 5 with the 2 attacks a round and assuming an 18 in the prime attribute the great sword fighter gets +2 AC (plate armor)and has 2 attacks for 2d6 attacks each for 10-16 damage per attack or 20-32 damage.
The halfling has AC 16, better dex releated stuff and has 3 attacks a round for 3d6+12 damage total. Or a range of 15-30 damage. The halfling however gets to split his attacks vs mooks and gets to roll more dice feeding into the critical hits of 19-20 and he gets to reroll 1s as well.
So what is the better fighter overall has anyone tried? If the halfing gets a pair of magic swords I suppose his damage creeps up assuming the great sword wielder also finds a magic sword.
Counting things like the crits and halfling rerolls and dex vs strength as well what would you play?
Dual weild seems to be good at low levels, but progressively worse at higher levels.
Personally, as far as "best", I think duelist style (+2 damage) 1 hander and shield gives nearly top damage while also giving you the benefits of a shield.
This thread isn't about dual weilding halflings. 
THF can use the "Other Activity" rule to use a shield at least half the time. TWF are less likely to have a DM let them alternatly drop and pick up their off hand weapon and shield from the ground.
TWF gain more bonus from the now heavily nerfed Divine Favor and the unnerfed Hunter's Mark.
Maybe I'm misreading this... but why would you have a halfing use a Greatsword? It's a heavy weapon, and they're small... This would cause them to have disadvantage on all attack rolls.
himrin wrote:
Karnos wrote:
Unless you have alot of on-hit buffs, GWF is going to do more then TWF.
But, being Dex based has many extra advatanges. Like bows, dex saves, intitive, and stealth.
Overall, it's farily balanced.
I'm impressed all around by the general blance of things. Someone really did do their homework.
mellored wrote:
If they had left off the str damage on the offhand attack, GWF and TWF would have been balanced with TWFing getting an extra attack per mainhand attack. You'd need to add a new benefit, though, to bring it up to par with the Fighter's GWFing bonus.
TWFing deals a bit more damage at first level, but it really starts to fall behind at 11th. At 5th, it's fairly balanced; (2d6*+4)x2 nets you average damage of 24.7; TWFing gets you (1d6+4)x2 + 1d6+4, or average 22.5. When your stat bonus goes up to +5 (lets say at level 8), you get 26.7 vs. 25.5; still pretty close. At 11th level, you're eclipsed: 40 vs 34.
Xeviat-DM wrote:
Lawolf wrote:
Veleria wrote:
Veleria wrote:
Karnos wrote:
You are comparing apples and oranges. 3 attacks no advantage vs 4 attacks with advantage. A more reasonable comparison on the value of HWM is both using 4 attacks with both either having advantage or both not having advantage. When you apply an even comparison HWM is not the behemoth you make it out to be.
Choosing to compare 2 different classes with 2 different options is not a very clear comparison.
Veleria wrote:
What I am saying is you have made the briliant argument that a character with 2 feats is superior to the identical character with no feats. You are not balancing your findings with all the variables. Either the character with no feats will have better stats or will have 2 other feats which can make up the difference in other ways. What I had originally reminded you was the GWM had a penalty to hit which makes the option of just using PM alone more attractive. You are also comparing a barbarion using Rage, Reckless assault and both feats to a fighter who is not using any of their class features. and possibly neither feat. Again brilliant insight that the class using class features and sacrificing defense can outdamage a different class if it chooses not to do either.
In your fighter comparison, the fighter will be able to throw out 6 extra attacks per short rest if they choose to and an additional 6d12 in Superiority dice with effects like off turn attacks, proning the enemy, Granting Disadvantage, Gaining Advantage, granting a rogue an additional chance to backstab ect. I think you are making a comparison in a vacum as both classes stand beating a literal straw man that does not fight back.
kev777 wrote:
Lawolf wrote:
Veleria wrote:
This thread made me go back and reread the Dual Wielder feat, and I just saw that you don't need to have one weapon classified as Light anymore. This opens up some character options for me.
Orethalion wrote:
Lawolf wrote:
Lawolf wrote:
CVB wrote:
Karnos wrote:
CVB wrote:
CVB wrote:
Orethalion wrote:
CVB wrote:
Also note to be clear we do not have the PHB so feats and the barbarian class are not used. Even once we get the PHB feats may or may not be used and the barbarian is on the fence as well as I do not like the class or at least the raging version of it.
CVB wrote:
You can absolutely use Dueling with a shield. A shield is not a weapon. As a general rule, it's implied that a fighter with use both his hands for something or other. So it would make zero sense for a fighter to just leave a hand dangling doing nothing. Mathematically speaking, the damage output from Dueling is far outdone by both TWF and GWF, so duelist was likely added there for a sword and board fighter who doesn't want to go Protection. Although I'd totally take Protection if I was the party tank and teamed with a rogue or ranger. I'd rather keep my party alive than stroke my own ego ;)
As for damage comparison's between GWF and TWF ... I'd say GWF still outdamages TWF at higher levels, but given the Dual Wielder feat allows for non-light weapons to be used (with a nice boost to AC to boot), nothing stops a halfling from using two rapiers. Also, for strength based fighters, we will likely be seeing bastards swords (D10) in a splat book or other. Also, Dex oriented characters will have some nice defenses ... not to mention less of an ability score distribution, so they can be really good at ranged weapons as well. Also, magic weapons will likely add some static per hit bonuses on weapons. Plus, you can split attacks between mobs.
Basically, there IS a legitimate reason to take TWF beyond merely flavor. GWF will outshine TWF in terms of raw damage output, but TWF fighters, especially Dex builds, will be much more versatile.
Ok level 5 dual wielder with 18 dex vs GWF with 178 strength. 1 gets 3 attacks for 1d6+4 damage each the other one gets 2 attacks for 2d6+6 (10-16 damage per hit)
Avg damage Great sword 20-32 vs 15-30.
Action surge though the dual wielder now gets 6 attacks?
I'm nnot sure how much the halfling reroll ability is worth when you try and spam as many dice rolls as you can.
CVB wrote:
ClockworkSaber wrote:
CVB wrote:
That being said, I fully expect a spiked shield to show up at some point. THAT would be considered a weapon. But currently, there are no rules on using basic shields as weapons, nor can you attack with one, ergo it's not a weapon. Plus, I suspect that if you *could* use a shield as a weapon, it could be used with two weapon fighting, i.e. bashing with the shield as a bonus action.
Having an empty hand is still useful for grabbing people.