Just saw this come up on Twitter:
http://www.trapdoortechnologies.com/dungeonscape/
I'm really getting tired of WotC pulling my chain like this. I'm wondering is anyone has any insight into what happened here to cause the break in business between WotC and Trapdoor Tech?
It would seem with the progressing stage of the iOS, and the Android/Web betas in full swing, this is a very odd time for WotC to pull the plug.
I wouldn't blame WotC (entirely). It was fairly clear that Trapdoor was in way, way, way over its head.
Having said that, it's at the point where I have to say that I am not surprised. WotC and the digital age simply aren't compatible.
Don't know.
It happens, though. Sometimes business relationships just don't work, for whatever reason. At least this time Dungeonscape wasn't touted as part of the system like the VT and 3D character builder were for 4E. Trapdoor did say that DungeonScape would be released, just not in its current form.
All this really does is open the door for all those fan-made character builders to start showing up. I'm still very interested in seeing where Trapdoor ends up taking the project, though. With an increasing usage of technology at my table, DungeonScape seemed like a dream come true. Still, there's an old maxim about chickens and counting them prematurely that I think applies here.
Thank_Dog wrote:
Aw! That sucks!
There was a lot of potential there.
According to the e-mail they sent out, it sounds like they might be looking at turning DungeonScape into a more generic RPG digital tool, which could be rather handy. But at the same time, I guess WotC is back at square one when it comes to digital support for D&D 5e. What is it with them and technology?
As much as I liked the first CB (the downloadable one, not the always paid, online one) for 4e, I can see how D&D and some tech just doesn't mix.
Whatever. When 4e switched its CB model, my friends and I went back to doing everything with a mechanical pencil, printed character sheets, and an eraser. Plus other things that anyone can get at Staples, Office Depot, or Office Max.
No matter how cool the 5e 'Dungeonscape' would have turned out to be, I still probably wouldn't have bought it, and I definitely wouldn't have subscribed to it. I hate paying a monthly fee for something I may or may not use on a monthly basis, much less use every day.
I am curious about the virtual table tops out there, though. That might have potential. (Roll20, and RPGTable online)
DaveDash wrote:
WoTC probably saw that it was a long way off being usable, and would require some $$ input to get out of alpha.
I wouldn't even call it a digital character sheet. If you picked the wrong skill or whatever, you had to restart from scratch.
It was little more than a proof of concept at this point.
They should just let hero lab handle it and call it a day. They would knock it out in no time.
This is very sudden. Does anyone know what happened? Doesn't make sense...it's like promising you'll release a new edition in the summer and then realizing you're only going to be able to finish one of the books by the intended launch. MUAHAHAHA. Seriously though wtf happened.
What this really means is that WoTC needs to get the pdf version of each book out soon. No digital support isn't going to be a good thing at all.
I wasn't very impressed with the web beta; and had just received my invite to the Android beta.
I can't say that I'm surprised. I suspected this would happen; when I first looked into what/who Trapdoor Technologies was. They just didn't seem to be a good fit; they weren't even considered a software developer. Heck, the Trapdoor Technologies Web site isn't anything more than a placeholder page with links to Twitter, LinkedIn, Google+, and Facebook.
They're a very small book publisher (Trapdoor Books) with aspirations to be a software/technology company. I wish them luck and success in those aspirations; but, hardly the best place for a company to go, to get a quality product of the magnitude necessary for WotC, with D&D.
lawrencehoy wrote:
Its such a bummer that this happens and don't know who's to blame. After two years in the making I suppouse that the implementation of the digital tools were almost complety tied.
I firmly belive that this kind of tools are a great help for the game and the hobby in general, so I deeply lament this step back.
There are some other developers who have similar and very interesting products, check this out: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/325749599/digital-d20 This guys seems to have clear ideas about what the future of Rpg should be.
So anyone make their own character builder yet?
Not entirely unexpected, and not remotely surprising.
Wizards' D&D team continue to be godawful at digital presence, news at 11.
The beta was far from ready. It was not a product that was close to being ready and I'm surprised it took this long for them to pull the plug.
DaveDash wrote:
I was really looking forward to the DungeonScape app...
But yeah, if what people are saying is true - that the product was in a poor condition, even in its beta version - then maybe this was for the good of others to develop a better (and hopefully official) digital product for D&D.
Lion's Den D&D applications
I've been using the application from "Lion's Den" on my iPad, and will continue to do so and recommend them. They are by far the best I've seen up to date. Still only on iOS though.
They have two applications for each recent edition (4th and 5th):
My Answer:
Shut up and give us the pdfs already!
Digital Tools are a lost cause, no tabletop RPG has the necessary resources to make it happen, so enough illusions of grandeur, DMs are doing just fine with PDFs and Word docs.
And frankly, I don't want to lug around all these books at the table so just give me the pdf. I don't care if its full price - I will pay for it! sheesh, why does WOTC have to make everything so complicated.
On the plus side this edition needs electronic tools less than any since BECMI. On the minus side, they'd still be really nice to have, and, you know, we were kinda thinking we'd get 'em.
First no Warforged in the DMG and now this!
I'm becoming more and more worried about the future.
Gwathir wrote:
Maybe now we'll get some PDFs.
arnwolf666 wrote:
DungeonScape (web - the only one I tried) was really, really not ready for beta upon beta release. As of this announcement it's still not capable of producing an accurate and playable character.
I look forward to seeing what other options arise.
Give us PDFs, please. 
Yeah, I also heard lots of not-so-great things about the beta. That being said, it WAS a beta, for what it's worth.
Honestly, I'm just glad that 5th is less "computer reliant" than 4E was. I can go back to the pencil+eraser days of 3.x, and not have to reprint a character whenever I went up 2 levels 
So this is a loss, yes, because if it was anything like the 4E downloadable CB, it would've been a blast and a huge asset. But it no longer going to be a thing (for now) is more of an unfortunate annoyance than a serious misstep or gamebreaking. Well...to me, at least!
Yep, I think WotC wasn't happy with the progress of DungeonScape. Sure they didn't have all the rules available but based on the status of the web beta (I didn't even bother checking out the Android beta when I got my invite because of how the web beta was) showed that for all their development time they didn't do much. They were approaching the development proccess all wrong (trying to build everything on top of the rules rather than building a framework that can adapt to changes and additions to the rules). They couldn't even come up with a decent UI layout that was independent of any delay in getting the rules. It was also clear that at least their web development people (or person it felt like) was inexperienced. It was clear from their blogs that they were iOS focused and skilled with little to no android or web development experience. They also were focusing on Dungeonscape being an "enchanced ebook" rather than a real suite of digital tools that makes the gaming table easier and more fluid. They had long enough to have put in party and table functionality (messaging, map drawing, etc.) without needing the rules but what we got was a barely functional (and not useful) 'home panel' and a character sheet that was innaccurate and uneditable so you couldn't even correct the mistakes their system made.
Maybe I will go back into my C# character builder at least for my table. In 2 days and just the PHB I had what seemed to be a better framework in progress than what Dungeonscape had and I was using the project to learn C# with (of course I've done a bit of web development and db interfaces in the past with perl and php, and dabbled in other languages from scripting to full on programming). I also realized homebrew rules entry in a character builder should be immediately ready when the tool is if instead of making a raw db by hand of all the official rules you instead build in an interface in the tool to enter/populate the db with the official rules which then can also be used to enter homebrew rules (so the framework goes up first, then populate with a test subset of data, then build up the front-end tools, tweak, then load the rest of the core data).
I also prefered the downloadable 4e builder (which a friend helped code) over the revamped online only one (done by the third or fourth team they had working on the 4e tools, my friend was in the second or so team). It seems just like the 4e toolset the first contracted company for the 5e tools never saw a full release (though they got futher than the 4e team did), maybe WotC will find someone else to take it over that has more experience with digital gaming tools (and now all the rules other than what's in the DMG so they have at least a more solid idea of what types of things they need to support).
I get the feeling a lot of you saying it was terrible, logged in and when not everything was ready for you to play with, simply gave up. I'll point out, that while the Android/Web Beta was very rough it had also just begun. The iOS version was very far along, included most of the Features they'd been touting, and was getting a lot of their attention as it was about ready for release. Given the way Trapdoor Tech responded to feedback, I expect this would have been an amazing tool for both Players and DM's. Quite a few of those who got to use the product when Dungeonscape debuted at some of the Conventions were very impressed.
More than likely if they do release it for Multiple RPG platforms, I'll pick it up. In fact, I might actually prefer that to a dedicated 5e product, as long as it has the same intent to deliver as many tools as possible to the Players/DM.
The biggest let down for me here though, is that there are no PDF versions of the 5e Books available currently, and now there's no confirmed source for their distribution. I'd pay for PDF versions, but not the physical books, because they haven't impressed me enough to warrant spending the money.
LupusRegalis wrote:
Untill there is a viable digital tool, my group will not be converting to 5e. For me as a DM I need the digital option to streamline my time a work to get the game going.
WotC better get another option off the ground soon or they will lose me as a potential customer that has previously bought every book ever released by this company since 1988.
Ice_Knight wrote:
Quite honestly, i wasn't that enamored with the dungeon scape character builder. (i didn't see anything else).
It wasn't any faster then pencile + paper or google docs. Except the point buy, but there's one's you don't need to sign in to use.
Bah. My friends and I have had conversations where we revel in the awesomeness that is being able to fill out a character sheet and track advancement with a pencil and paper again. That we no longer have to use proprietary computer software to print out 8-page full-color character sheets every time we level up and/or our gear changes.
Chakrum wrote:
The web beta wasn't very good, but it did have some potential. However, there were a number of bugs that made me question if they ever made a web product before. Also, it was so buggy that you couldn't really play around with it in an actual game session.
BoldItalic wrote:
thespaceinvader wrote:
knightserpent wrote:
seti wrote:
pukunui wrote:
LupusRegalis wrote:
Azzy1974 wrote:
Dracones wrote:
Dracones wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Hurin88 wrote:
Whatever the reasons for the Dungeonscape tool to scrapped was, we could really use a good set of tools for DMs and players.
The ball has been dropped, hopefully WotC will pick it up soon.
As a playtester for the Web version, I am so glad to hear that WOTC walked away from the table. The sheer level of problems the software had, for a supposed Beta launch was insane. My Computer Science students could have cobbled together a better program in the length of time they had. The program didn't even add my armor to my armor class, or con bonus to hit points. Oh, and it was ugly to use on a desktop or laptop, which is what I would think a web app should look nice on.
or more likely, hopefully they'll anoint someone else to pick it up...
Masterplan was a useful tool for 4e campaign management but there have not been any news about it since last year even though there was an announcement that the DnDNext would be supported. A pity, it would not be too hard for it to be converted to 5e if the developers wanted to. 
Regarding the Dungeonscape, I remember in one of their news updates that they were trying to find a way to make content available even to people that had not purchased it but also without making it susceptible to piracy. Practically they wanted to have it behave like a real life book where you can show its content to your friends while playing the game. So their goal was not quite a pdf but not quite a book either. Can't have it both ways though...
I was in the web beta, so I'm not really shocked by this news. I give trapdoor credit for being very active with the community and for having a great idea. The current state of the app was so far from finished that I think it was unlikely that a workable version could have been ready in the next 6 months. Basic functionality such as eqiuping items and preparing spells didn't seem to be in the near future, and the interface was spread across so many pages it would be difficult to navigate quickly during a game (my opinion).
I was most excited about the possible ability to use books and track adventures with the app, but I never got to see any of that functionality, so I can't comment on where they were with those features.
I also was not pleased that pricing details never surfaced and that it seemed Wizards was planning to charge us twice for the same content rather than just providing access codes to those who purchased physical copies of their books.
Synjin wrote:
mellored wrote:
I have just ended my subscription because personally, the character builder was a lifesaver in updating, prototyping and producing clear clean character sheets for the table.
Until a usable builder is available, I don't see why I should be feeding my money into a black hole when I, as a player am cut off from digital assistance I was previously given that drew me to it in the first place. I understand supporting the business to keep developing their game, but however much I appreciate their work, times are hard.
Pariah27 wrote:
Thank_Dog wrote:
lol, sigh.
Timborama wrote:
evil_warlock wrote:
dash144 wrote:
I remember getting 3.0 and it came with a great character creater disc that promised so very much and it was very usable as it was BUT wotc did not follow throught with it`s promises to the gamers; they then came out with E-tools which cost me over $40.00 and was a peice of junk, never worked and looked terrible. Now they`ve done it again with dragonscape. I mean coming on the heels of 4th edition , itself a flop of the first order. I am beginning to wonder who at WOTC knows what they are doing with reguards to digital tools, i mean hiring the companies to produce the items .
Now for the good news I love 5th edition it is so simple without dumbing the game down. I love the background, just wish there were more, i mean i can`t say enough. Understand i`m 51 and have been playing since 1981. I`ve played 1st, AD&D, 2nd, revised D&D, 3.0, 3,5 and yes pathfinder or as i like to call it 3.75, attempted 4th (facepalm) and now 5th. All i can say is if you keed going along the 5th edition lines you will bring back a lot of people ....it is a great system and my favorite over 3.5 , the edition dearest to my heart ....I have a new love lol
So no official word on why WoTC walked away?
Okay seriously. Why has this gaming company continuously delivered the poorest digital support throughout its entire existence. When 4e came out and people complained that the system was a pen and paper mock up of WoW, the company's reply was "well, video games and computer games have been stealing ideas from d&d since the dawn of fantasy gaming, why can't we steal these concepts back!" How about this: 'steal' the proper way to make a sleek and useable app for this wonderful table top RPG. I'm a fan of 5th edition all the way. But I do think the way they develop the business is SAD. Case in point: a constant failure to support the game with digital tools. Another case in point: they planned on releasing 5th edition in the summer and promised people they'd have it all. Then all the sudden its "oh heh... yeah we meant like... ONE of the books (eyes shift lwft and right), so yeah, heh, it still totally a summer launch guys. Again I live 5th edition but dude, WoTC has terrible planning skills when it comes down to the business end of this equation. But I don't totally blame them, the economy is tough, it's hard to keep the ship running. And now they hired some company that apparently produced a terrible program for their digital tools and made them look bad.END RANT THANKS
for those interested i came across this one:
DaveyJones6913 wrote:
Sands666 wrote:
And for ios DMs, I swear by this product and have my PCs entered in as stat blocks in case one can't show.
d20 Dungeon Master: D&D 5e by Lion's Den
To be fair to WotC, its not necessarily their fault that this didn't work out. They hired a third party in good faith to develop a product. The product either didn't meet the spec or schedule, or cost too much (likely both, from my experience in similar situations), and WotC pulled the plug rather than waste time and resources on a bad product. It's a solid business decision, even if it's dissappointing to some fans.
Both the hate towards WotC and unfounded sense of entitlement expressed in this thread is just silly. 
I was in the beta as well, and it was evident that they missed some early steps of software design & development--low-fi & paper prototypes, early user experience testing, proofs-of-concept. I never really saw a good "end state" with a character that had all of the information required to use at the table, not even one where everything was manually entered.
So it's sad, but no surprise as well.
I too used a digital character builder as an excuse to keep up with some web tech I hadn't used in a while, but we've got no guidance on any sort of fan site policy, and even if you don't have verbatim text in your application, or even if it's user-entered, Wizards is super C&D-happy, and that's scary.
Besides, I already have a job, making a digital CB and supporting it publically would give me two.
What boggles my mind is that TSR had great tools for both 1st and 2nd Edition during the era when not many people used them. Why can't WotC figure out how to get it right?
Rils wrote:
ProphetSword wrote:
Dracones wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
ProphetSword wrote:
Some wild speculatuion, partly based on the QnA they live streamed it was up on the Dungeonscape youtube site for a few days but was then suddenly taken down from the youtubepage.
It was said the app consisted of 2 parts a e-reader part and a toolset.
At one point they said they where talking about pricing and able to release if the talks where done, but i got the fealing this refered to releasing the e-reader part first witout the toolset.
It was also said they had recieved no funding from WOTC, and would only start reciving income from it when the sales of the books within the e-reader app would start.
Again this is total speculation on my part.
But it might be trapdoor ran out of money for the project, and wanted to release the product feature incomplete ( releasing only the e-reader part) so they could start getting money from the project to use to further develop the tools.
And I can imagine WOTC might not have liked the idea of releasing half a product ( especialy if trapdoor initialy promised it woucl be complete at release)
While I am disappointed that Dungeonscape cratered so quickly I can't say that I am surprised. I got early access to the "beta" and quickly realized that it was barely a proof of concept and nowhere near ready. Considering how far from being anything other than a potentially sufficient character generator and were months out from launch its no surprise that WotC scrapped it.
My advice to WotC is you need to move and move fast. You have a great product and the best name in RPG's but if you do not move quickly to at the very least get PDF's released, and I mean like next week fast, you are really risking losing all the momentum from release and once it’s gone that’s it. It's not 1989 and you can no longer rely on physical book sales to dominate the RPG market. People demand access to product on a wide range of devices and others in the industry have wisely worked to meet that demand. As every industry from music to video is rapidly, and often painfully, shifting to digital you have to realize that you are not exempt.
Now that Dungeonscape is gone look, as others have suggested, to established products to get you into the digital space fast. You cannot afford to move slowly even with a product that is as good as what you have produced if you do not meet the demands of your 21st century customers many will quickly abandon you for games that offer more convenience. Best of luck as you move forward and I honestly hope that this all gets sorted out for the sake of a game I personally enjoy so much.
I am sad to hear this. Dungeonscape would have been a cool tool to use. I liked what I have seen so far. It was nice to know that the creators of Dungeonscape were fans of the game and that it was a labor of love.
As a customer who purchases tons of their products, I have the freedom to be critical if I feel like it. It's has nothing to do with feeling entitled. If you're refering to my comment though, I never said I hated WoTC. I said I like 5th edition and understand that it's difficult in an economy where there is less leeway to attain easier managing of the company (aka a bigger staff). Making the deal with Morningstar just made the company look bad. And yes, fans are going to be rightfully frustrated since they have been made false promises about digital content. I'm not saying I don't understand why it happened the way that it did, but the backlash should also be understood. It's a business, and the fallout is bad for it.
Rils wrote:
Timborama wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
i concur re: zardnaar's observation.
however, i've been gaming since the 1970s. during most of my existence as a gamer, there simply never was an alternative to a successful RPG following the "infinite number of dead tree books" model.
this also gives me an idea...
Cleric345 wrote:
There are some misconceptions in this thread.
1) WOTC did not hire this company to make a digital product. They purely licensed it to them. The company that was making Dungeonscape approached WOTC (not the other way around) and negotiated an early license from WOTC. WOTC was focusing on the rules themselves and putting off decisions on digital-anything until the core rules were released and people had at least a month to digest the.
2) These other products people are talking about, HeroLab and Roll20 and such, those companies don't have a license agreement with WOTC right now, probably for a reason. My guess is the share of profits WOTC wants is too high for their standard business model (in fact I don't think Roll20 has ever licensed anything). WOTC isn't going to simply give a license to them for free. WOTC has a lot more freedom to control and negotiate digital tool licenses, because the OGL doesn't cover them and you can't just use the OGL to make a digital tool product.
3) Some digital tools will come. The original WOTC plan was to wait until at least 30 days after the core rules were released before making decisions. That is likely still the plan. So we're talking some time mid-January before they make a decision, and then however much time it takes to implement that decision. The game is not so complex that you NEED a digital tool to play it, and your life is not coming to an end so quickly that you NEED it right now. Just have a little patience and enjoy the game.
Mistwell wrote:
There's essentially three ways to go about having a digital tool set for D&D:
(1) Build it yourself
(2) License it to someone else to build
(3) Buy or invest in something that already exists
WoTC tried (1) several times. Remember Gleemax and the 4e virtual tabletop? Probably not. Unfortunately, Wizards simply has no competitive advantage when it comes to technology. They're old school to a fault. For 5e, they opted to try (2). That's a great idea... but who the heck is Trapdoor Technologies? Clearly they couldn't deliver the goods (whether the issue was with quality, functionality, or deadlines doesn't really matter).
So what's next? If WoTC is smart, they'll go for number (3) next time. Take an existing platform like Roll20 that already has a large base of players invested in it, and simply jump on the bandwagon. Maybe Roll20 wouldn't want to sell outright to Wizards, but I can see a joint venture type of arrangement with a unique set of tool specific to 5e D&D being made available. 95% of the work is already done, since there's already a functioning tabletop and pretty good support for 5e already in place. Instead of waiting for Wizards to add another digital fail to their lengthy list of failures, we could be up and running by the new year.
pauldanielj2 wrote:
DaveyJones6913 wrote:
Grazel wrote:
Thank_Dog wrote:
Rils wrote:
TSRO_Kip wrote:
Rils wrote:
Dracones wrote:
edwin_su wrote:
Dracones wrote:
Dracones wrote:
Mistwell wrote:
Dracones wrote:
I''
Azzy1974 wrote:
There's a level in Hell for software programmers where they have to import data from PDFs and do things with it.
It's a 20 year old format that's grown organically over the last 2 decades as rarely used features kept getting piled on top of it. It wasn't all that great even when it was designed, but there really wasn't an alternative so it caught on. From a content creator standpoint it's probably easy to work with, but only because some developer went mentally insane making it so the "Export to PDF" feature on his application(or PDF API) does backflips to create a workable PDF file. I wish the format would die a thousand deaths, but it won't soon because everyone uses it and a replacement format hasn't really caught on.
But I can see 5e tool makers going with the "import PDF" route simply because they want to write tools for 5e(big market share) and there isn't any alternative. But it's a really really bad place to be on the digital front.
One creative programmer created a Savage Worlds character builder that unlocks features if you point it at a local valid PDF. He has agreements with the setting companies for that and it's a smart way to see if the user has already bought various rulesets(Savage Worlds has hundreds of settings). But even that simple "scan this PDF, see if it's the proper book" feature breaks all the time.
what i mean is that all of the problems with each edition tend to come about because of two different thoughts: "we need to sell more books, so we need to write more books." "we already wrote these books, so we can't change anything that's in them." ...in other words, a business model based around selling books is what makes editions fall apart and forces them to rewrite it every few years. i think they need to come up with a better revenue model, which would free them up to make a better game.
Dracones wrote:
Dracones wrote:
Grazel wrote:
I don't know if I'd agree that getting the data out there is especially hard. Paizo releases pretty much all their rules content onto their PRD and it hasn't seemed to hurt sales. A SRD is pretty much a standard these days with rpgs and can be used as the basis for digital tools. Though with some companies(Pelgrane Press' 13th Age), they tend to lag behind releases by quite a bit.
It may be very hard for WoTC to do this due to the politics between them and Hasbro, but on a technical level there really aren't any roadblocks to good digital tools for 5e. It's really not even a manpower issue as the fans will pick this stuff up pretty quickly if the permission to distribute is there.
Lady_Auralla wrote:
I absolutely agree that Trapdoor was in over their heads. It was evident from the beta.
WOTC had a revenue stream in the 4e character builder. Maybe it wasn't enough, but it was there. I was willing to kick in a couple of silver pieces every month to pay for the Insider service and so were my buddies. Now they don't.
blake_marlowe wrote:
RCanine wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
RCanine wrote:
Zard and Lyons, I don't think RCanine was referring to sales, specifically. If anything, I believe he was referring to brand awareness...if only for the fact he said it 3 times...
Dracones wrote:
Mistwell wrote:
if i assume that you're asking me why WOTC should function differently than their competitors, my answer would be: mearls said WOTC's goal is to grow D&D. since they're already the biggest game in town, the only way to grow is to reach new markets. In order to reach new markets, they need to innovate. i don't think that's different than any of their competitors, actually. however, WOTC has more to lose by not innovating. as top dog, they're in a prime position to have a nimble, innovative competitor come in an eat their lunch. In fact, they've already seen a little bit of that with paizo.
Grazel wrote:
RCanine wrote:
RCanine wrote:
Dracones wrote:
So...DungeonScape isn't for Power gamers or RP-oriented character designers?
A rather strange new blog post from te morning star guys today.
http://www.trapdoortechnologies.com/morningstar/
The workers at the Trapdoor Forge and Magicworks are sitting around the table at the local pub.
For months, they had been working on a wonderful new artifact - a mithril and elf-glass tome of storytelling. It was to be a gift to the village for the holidays - a source of imagination for the dark, cold nights of winter!
Early this morning, when they went into their shop - they discovered that the magical tools they had been using to craft the storyteller's tome are missing. The only clue is a single piece of seaweed lying nearby.
Over their beers, they commiserate. They were so close, and the holidays are coming. What happened? What can be done?
Surely, they can find magical tools beyond the walls of their village. An adventure!
A tale to tell, but all great adventures must have a name. Looking about for inspiration, all eyes fall to the party's lone magical item, a morningstar which glows in the darkness. Smiling, the lanky form of Newtonian the Rogue whispers, "Let's call this quest "Codename: Morningstar".
And the adventure begins...
To keep up with our plucky band of adventurers, check back each Thursday as the story continues to unfold.
Interesting that this was posted on the morningstar site and account the name they used before it got changed to dungeonscape.
I believe I have put enough of my time and effort with these guys. I think trying to follow them as they work on a tool without a game just doesn't excite me in the least.
dafrca wrote:
Zero expectations
RCanine wrote:
Azzy1974 wrote:
Mistwell wrote:
Shasarak wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
Zardnaar wrote:
Shasarak wrote:
Mistwell wrote:
rcanine quoth:i'm curious how you think WOTC will grow the game without innovating. the angry DM made a great post about why WOTC's current model stifles the growth of the game.
Mistwell wrote:
Mistwell wrote:
Azzy1974 wrote:
I think you may be confused about what MASSIVE profits are.
MASSIVE profits are MtG levels of profit.
Well they were apparently MASSIVE for a tabletop RPG game book sales. Both Amazon and Barnes & Noble have sold out of their copies of the PHB at least once each so far. Unless they got a small quantity compared to the FLGS, which the ones near me each had "hundreds" (in their words) of the PHB and they sold well even on early release day, that means they sold a lot of copies.
As for the piracy concern, while WotC themselves haven't said anything, Trapdoor did say one of the concerns they had for Dungeonscape was trying to secure the data but still make it usable for players. It's possible that is part of why their relationship with WotC ended, either they were trying to be too strict or they couldn't be strict enough for WotC/Hasbro legal. I suspect the D&D dev team isn't as concerned about piracy but the corporate bean counters are likely just as bad as with most companies and think that people pirating their product is bad, when the majority who pirate the products wouldn't/couldn't buy them legally to begin with (either due to availability or money).
Also for some stats:
This is for the end of August and lists 22k copies sold, hitting #1 on Hardcover nonfiction, #7 overall for that week. Also Hoard of the Dragon Queen was #7 on the Hardcover nonfiction that week. So it hit the top 10 on a best seller list on just it's first week out, competing against fiction and other books that normally sit in those spots. Impressive for a "hobby rules manual". Also keep in mind these numbers are JUST from major booksellers (mostly box stores like Amazon and Barnes & Noble), and doesn't cover smaller bookstore sales, FLGS and other hobby type sales, or various website sales. Wikipedia states that Nielsen BookScan (where PW gets their numbers from) does cover about 75% of retail book sales, but again for something like the D&D books that's probably a smaller percentage as they're talking about places that primarily sell books and FLGS likely aren't included in that total at all.
http://www.thetomeshow.com/e/round-table-43-codename-morningstar-organized-play/
the morningstar interview starts at 38:00
DnD is Nonfiction.
Let that sink in 
Timborama wrote:
Mistwell wrote:
http://www.madadventurers.com/dungeonscape-the-fellowship-of-the-thing/
New dungeonscape interview
In defense of wizards...
I do think they realize their weakness in the digital realm, as clearly evidenced by the number of job openings available. So to all the keyboard warriors who think they aren't doing enough, put your resume where your mouth is:
http://company.wizards.com/about/careers
I am also a Magic player, and I can rell you that Magic Online has come under a lot of fire lately. It's no secret as even some higher level players have voiced concern with the platform. All I can say is that I hope that they do as good of a job recruiting a new tech team as they do on game design.
Sorin_777 wrote:
Sorin_777 wrote:
edwin_su wrote:
*Most* of those job listings are for Magic. Understandably, it's a bigger product, with a business model that keeps players buying tons of product. Also realize that the MTGO bugs have been ongoing, so it follows a timeline of problem identified to jobs created to jobs posted. It takes meetings and budget adjustments just to post a position. I see the current job openings as a reaction to the Magic problem, and I see that as evidence that they care about their digital products.
Also as anyone in corporate America knows, you can approach a company as a problem solver with what is often called a pain letter. It basically comes down to "Dear company, you may have this problem that my skill set can solve, see resume attached". I'm not a programmer or I would be all over it.
Well Trapdoor had their own problems. Their an ipad shop which is why the android and web interfaces were so poorly done, and why they were held up because they were trying to develop each separately with separate teams rather than working on some sort of cross-platform friendly system. I think Trapdoor took on way too much for what they could do realistically.
Without a large development team you aren't likely to see cross-platform support, at least not on anything that isn't web-based (which if it isn't Silverlight and instead uses a more platform neutral technology can be fairly cross-platform with just some testing and tweaking).