Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Negflar2099 Jul 04, 2014 16:19:18	There's a lot to like in not only the rules as written, and the presentation of those rules in the Basic game but also in how WoTC has handled a lot of the, shall we say metagame stuff around launching a new edition. It seems like they learned a lot from their mistakes. Here's what I mean:   Dissing previous editions: When WoTC launched 4th edition I felt that they made a huge communication gaffe in how they talked about the need for a new edition and what they hoped to accomplish. I cringed when I saw that video that talked about how terrible 3rd edition grappling rules were and how 4e was going to fix everything. I didn't particularly love 3rd but all my friends did and so did a lot of other people. Bad mouthing their beloved edition was not a way to earn their love.   But now: WoTC has from day one of the announcement gone out of their way to gush about previous editions, to explain how they play every edition and love them all. This is reflected in the basic design of their game. If it succeeded or not (and I think it did in many ways) 5e was sold as an attempt to bridge the gap between all editions, to allow everyone to play together. Not as a way to "fix" the errors of your favorite and holy edition (because whatever edition that is, you know it's simply beyond reproach) but to unify. Good move.   PR and more: During 4e launch it seemed like every announcement was designed to tick people off. Canceling Dragon and Dungeon and going online only? Making it so that no previous supplements could be used in the new edition? Releasing cartoons that only seemed to mock those who loved 3e? All bad moves in my book.   But now: WoTC has done a lot to mend those fences. I'm not saying they don't have a long way to go but putting up all the old supplements as PDFs (which I have bought way too many of), to playtesting the game so that we fans feel like we have an ownership over it (in constrast to 4e launch, which was more traditional and led to the rules taking people by surprise) all the way up to releasing the basic game for free. Wizards is trying. I hope it continues.   The game itself: While I loved 4e (and continue to do so) I have to admit the break in D&D tradition proved to be way too much for  alot of people. The disappearance of vancian magic was the biggest but certainly not the only thing about the rules that ticked people off.   But now: With 5e Wizards is returning the game closer to the original D&D. Plus with the playtest we the fans got to weigh in on the rules we liked and the rules we don't and that helped. We eased into this edition better than we ever did and Wizards got us there. The launch order is also something to be comended. 4e launched in a very strange order with the starter set coming out 3/4 of the way through the edition cycle (and launching a mini edition change on top of that). 5e by contrast is launching in a sensible way. Starter set first (which makes logical sense) plus a great basic game (major nostalgia bomb for those who remember basic d&d) and releasing it for free. Very smart design choices.   Inclusivity: This is something that wizards struggled with and may continue to. From pictures that mostly showed typical white male faces to art that when it did show women, was sure to show more of them then would be sensible to display in the middle of combat, the games tended towards pushing people out instead of bringing them in.   But now: There are reasons to be cautiously optimistic. From the great paragraph about sexual orientation in the basic rules to the way more inclusive and sensible art we've seen so far, there is every reason to feel that Wizards is on the right track. We'll see if they can keep it up but for now they are doing good. That makes me proud of this edition and proud to be a gamer.   A lot of other stuff: I could keep going. There's a lot to love in the basis game. From the inclusion of snippets from d&d novels that add a heavy roleplaying feel, to the comparison between Tika and Artemis that they use in the character chapter to the general layout, there's a lot to like. And I havent' even talked about the rules. I'll just stop it here though. As a 4e fan I was very skeptical about this launch but I think they are doing very well. Lets see if they can keep it up.
#2 Hurin88 Jul 04, 2014 16:22:34	Negflar2099 wrote:
#3 Titanium_Dragon Jul 04, 2014 16:42:00	(content removed - edition warring is against the Code of Conduct. http://company.wizards.com/policies/web/conduct )   Sigh. Oh well. Better for me personally, I suppose, even if it is bad for D&D and the RPG community in general.   They still haven't fixed what needs to be fixed, and the D&D Basic rules they've released really just highlight how doomed they really are and how little they understand about fixing things.   Sometimes, you just gotta cut your losses and actually do something good. The Pathfinder folks gave in to nerd rage and are going to play 3.5 until they have to switch due to decay.   The game is actually very uninclusive which is a major problem D&D has had since the dawn of 3rd edition. The problem is that the game is far too complicated, and their "basic" version of the game is 110 pages long.   110 pages! And that isn't small pages either - that is big honking PDF pages with north of a thousand words per page. That's insane. That's not basic, that is really freaking complicated. And this is supposed to be an introduction! An introduction! A 110,000 word PDF is not an introduction. It is a freaking rulebook. A really long one.   And that is short by the standards of many RPGs.   And people wonder why they seem inaccessible.   A set of basic rules should be SHORT. It should be SIMPLE. And it should WORK. This does none of those things - it is long, it is complicated, and it is still broken, with spells like Sleep, Dominate Person, and similar nonsense still floating around.
#4 The_Jester Jul 04, 2014 16:53:08	Hurin88 wrote:
#5 Tony_Vargas Jul 04, 2014 17:00:03	Negflar2099 wrote:
#6 THEMNGMNT Jul 04, 2014 17:12:18	Agreed that WotC is building a lot of good will in the way they're launching 5E.
(Reply to #3) CCS	Titanium_Dragon wrote:
(Reply to #3) VanRicter	Titanium_Dragon wrote:
#9 Lawngnome4hire Jul 04, 2014 20:06:40	I have to agree they've done a really good job so far with this release.  Whether you like the rules, or are just here to incessantly spew vitriol like some, it's hard to deny that they've done a good job of communcating their plans and intent with their customers.   Considering TSR/WotC has such a long and storied history of making horrible mistakes and angering thier customers it's nice to see they are finally on the right track.   The one thing that they've repeatedly done in the past that's annoyed me the most, is how they tend to change the core design philosophy behind the edition part way through.  Generally after several years they start introducing new ideas and concepts that just don't mesh, or flat out contradict the way the rules were originally designed.  I really hope they don't go down that road yet again.  So far they've done a good job of making solid choices(even if I don't agree with all of them), and making them for the right reasons.  If they can keep that up they'll keep me as a customer for a long time to come.
#10 caecafortuna Jul 04, 2014 20:51:19	Lawngnome4hire wrote:
#11 Shasarak Jul 04, 2014 21:03:27	Titanium_Dragon wrote:
#12 edwin_su Jul 04, 2014 21:05:17	Titanium_Dragon wrote:
#13 SupraHeroSeth Jul 04, 2014 21:40:52	edwin_su wrote:
(Reply to #12) mboss77	edwin_su wrote:
#15 Gnarl Jul 04, 2014 22:32:13	Tony_Vargas wrote:
#16 Gnarl Jul 04, 2014 22:35:01	Titanium_Dragon wrote:
#17 seti Jul 04, 2014 23:16:56	I think they launched this edition much better than they launched 4th. I love 4e, but they really messed that up, IMO. Essentials didn't come first, they changed the MM's largely rendering MM 1 and 2 useless, splitting the DMG into 2 books, the PHB into 3...Not to mention the first PHB had a disspointing (and not well thought out) selection of races and classes. People wanted the Monk, the gnome, etc...Not the dragonborn or the warlord. Don't get me wrong, those were a cool race and a great class, but it'd have been better to stick to 'core' for the PHB 1.   They also just stopped making minis, dungeon tiles, and books for 4e without giving 4e fans a sense of completion. We never got a 'Heroes of the Astral Sea' nor an 'Unearthed Arcana' or a 'Legends and Lore' like the other editions got.   5e's roll out is good and smart. I'm sad I won't see everything until November, but I like their reasoning behind that. Plus, 2015-2018 (or longer) or so will probably be a feast of official adventures and cool splat books/campaign setting books. Plus, I look foreward to better 3rd party support (I hope) and a damn video game that's not 'mobile' or MMO (I hope!).   On the idea that Basic D&D and the Starter Set isn't 'basic' enough...Well, TTRPGs have always been more complicared than board games (even tricky board games like Axis and Allies, etc.) TTRPGs should be complicated. If I wanted a goofy/drinking game, a simple game, or a board/card game for me plus 1-5  friends, well...I have those, and the world has had those for thousands of years.   TTRPG 'inclusivity' has never been all about rulesets. It's the stereotypical culture of many TTRPG players and fans. They scare off potential players, IMO (women, kids, newbies, even non-white people). Anyone who is frightened by a lot of text to read is someone who probably will never game beyond FPS's, Las Vagas, or Monopoly anyway.