Does anyone know if both the Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster are half casters, getting as much slots as Paladins and Rangers?
I think I am most excited about these two subclasses. Sure, you have much less spells known and only 2 schools you can cast from but STILL I think it's useful and damn flavorful without having to multiclass. I've felt these two classes, especially fighter, never worked well multiclassing and/or prestige classing with caster classes but now they should.
Also, will any of you house rule these subclasses can use different schools?
Here is my line of thinking. If I have an Eldritch Knight, my schools are abjuration and evocation. I honestly would not want evocation and instead would prefer transmutation to accentuate my fighting abilities. I could also see conjuration instead of evocation. As a DM I would definitely allow any combination of two schools of abjuration, evocation, transmutation and conjuration although I would also have to change some of the free spells known they get and maybe change some of their abilities (don't know what they are yet, so hard to say).
Arcane Trickster, if my sources are correct, can choose from enchantment and illusion. Like Eldritch Knight, I see these both fitting. However, if I made one I would prefer illusion and transmutation (for very different reasons than I want it for Eldritch Knight). However, as a DM I would probably allow any combination of illusion, enchantment, divination or transmutation so long as they were limited to two schools total and again may have to change/reflavor free spells known/abilities (don't know these either).
What I like most about these is that they are still their normal class, with casting. I am certain there are of a few of you that will HATE and even ban these subclasses for these very reasons. I would also like to point out I've never, ever wanted to play a fighter and rarely want to play a rogue and have usually only done so because the party needs one. Now they are interesting! Even without these subclasses they are interesting, but for magic-philes like myself they are much more intriguing!
They are 1/3 casters. They cap out at 4th level spells while rangers and paladins max out at 5th level spells.
You probably want to go fighter 11 / wizard 9.
3 attacks, and 5th level spells.
Lawolf wrote:
mellored wrote:
TheLyons wrote:
The guys that got early Player's Handbooks who've been answering questions over at ENWorld said these are 1/3 casters.
1/3 casters does seem the most fair and balanced, but obviously I don't have the math/playtesting experience to know for sure. I still LOVE these subclasses more than any of the other martial ones.
TheLyons wrote:
masterfat78 wrote:
mellored wrote:
Prism wrote:
Basically, 11/9 is the sweet spot for the EK/Wizard MC.
Any more Fighter levels and you might as well just go pure Fighter. Any less and you might as well scrap the whole thing and go Valor Bard or Blade Warlock instead, since they get 2 attacks/round plus full spellcasting.
GladiusLegis wrote:
Only thing I'm trying to decide now is if my Eldritch Knight will go with a Warhammer or a Long Sword (and probably Defensive or Protection fighting style, for character building reasons). Figure a pretty common build might be Warhammer/Long Sword and Dueling or Two-Weapon Fighting for backup melee and going dexterity.
GladiusLegis wrote:
Going to 15 Wizard for 8ᵗʰ level spells may be a better deal than the fighter’s Ability Score Improvement at level 6.
Overpromises wrote:
GladiusLegis wrote:
GladiusLegis wrote:
Eldritch Knight with Grease and a reach weapon.
TheLyons wrote:
TheLyons wrote:
Shroom-Mage wrote:
I'm excited about these subclasses too.
I played a fighter/sorcerer in one 3E campaign but we only played to level 4 or so. I'm really hoping I can do something similar in 5E and tailor it to what I want. I nearly played a Magus in a PF campaign I'm in now but I found the particular vision of the gish was too narrow for my taste.
I'm also curious if the Eldritch Knight can effectively handle an Arcane Archer build.
I'm sad that the Eldritch Knight can't get access to Fly and other Transmutation goodies. What's an Eldritch Knight if they can't fly? Though I'd probably be willing to pick up some wizard levels to get it.
I'm imagining the Eldritch Knight will be something like Sparhawk from the Elenium series of books by David Eddings. Cool.
"I'm sad that the Eldritch Knight can't get access to Fly and other Transmutation goodies. What's an Eldritch Knight if they can't fly? Though I'd probably be willing to pick up some wizard levels to get it."
For both Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster, 1 of the 3 spells you learn at Level 3 and the spells you learm at 8th, 14th, and 20th can come from ANY school of magic.
Fly away!
DemoMonkey wrote:
TheLyons wrote:
JohnLynch wrote:
Prism wrote:
TheLyons wrote:
Overpromises wrote:
Someone posted all the pages of the rogue and gnome over on reddit here.
The arcane trickster looks super sweet, and the assassin is apparently a surprise round MONSTER.
Sturmunddrang wrote:
Eerongal wrote:
GladiusLegis wrote:
GladiusLegis wrote:
mellored wrote:
GladiusLegis wrote:
Xeviat-DM wrote:
Just looked at Arcane Trickster and I am curious about 9 AT/11 Wizard.
9 Arcane Trickster gives targets disadvantage on spells cast while hidden from the target the entire turn. 11 Wizard gives level 6 spells and I would have to look at the specializations to see what works, but the 9 AT also adds 3 levels to your spell slots known, giving caster 14, giving level 7 slots. Maybe even 11 in a full caster other than wizard is the way to go (11 trickster cleric sounds flavorful!), but without the PHB, it's hard to say.
I wish I had the PHB to know for sure what could be done, but I can see the level 9 ability REALLY doing some crazy stuff. Crazy enough to lose out on level 7 through 9 spells known? No clue, yet.
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Mirtek wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong, but sneak attack is not multiplied on a critical hit - meaning the damage would be 2(11d6+5), which is still an impressive amount of damage but nowhere near as obscene. IIRC, "damage dice" is a term which applies specifically to the attacks normal damage, (eg. spell, or weapon) and does not count additional sources of damage (eg. sneak attack) when being calculated.
I still prefer the method used in the playtest however, wherein critical hits maximize the damage dealt.
Kalani wrote:
Kalani wrote:
I happily stand corrected. I will be the first to admit I have yet to read the full basic rules cover-to-cover, as I am waiting to read the PHB (which I will be procuring tomorrow). As such, I was going off how things worked in one of the earlier playtests (before they decided to playtest maximized damage).
Spell Mastery is really cool. Since cantrips scale up to 4 dice, using Spell Mastery for Attack spells simply gives more at-will attack options. Using them for utility spells, though, is where it will really shine. At-will shield does sound cool, but it's really comparable to the Rogue's Uncanny Dodge, and they've been doing that since 5th level.
Xeviat-DM wrote:
Ashrym wrote:
TheLyons wrote:
TheLyons wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Sturmunddrang wrote:
spelley wrote:
Xeviat-DM wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
Levitate + Thunderwave (+ an accurate simulation of physics)
MechaPilot wrote:
Ashrym wrote:
PHB, PG 75 The spels you learn from 8th, 14th, and 20th level can come from any shcoo of magic. (Eldritch Knight)
GladiusLegis wrote:
Sturmunddrang wrote:
Sturmunddrang wrote:
That extra attack on GWM probably needs to be errata-ed to be limited to holding a weapon in two hands. 
I just have to say it.
Eldritch Knights are Fighters. That's their actual class: Fighter.
And they cast spells. Actual, prep-and-cast-it, from the wizard list, schools-of-magic. V/S/M components, casting time, maintain concentration, make a saving throw suckers, /spells/.
So, in 5e, actual Fighters actually Cast actual Spells.
Is this news? I thought we knew this for weeks?
ChrisCarlson wrote:
Oh. "Winning" on the internet. Cuz that happens... 
Yes. You are correct Tony. Whoever you feel the need to say "IN YOUR FACE!" to, I am sure they are properly chastened.
At this point there is nothing for them to do but drive away to another province and start a new life under the name "Patricia".
It just means that EVERY CLASS has the possibility now to cast at least one spell – and I'm specifically referring to how higher-level Barbarians get access to a single spell.
Besides magiphobic Barbarians, we have Full casters of Clerics, Wizards, Sorcerers, Bards, Druids; Half-casters of Paladins and Rangers, 1/3 casters in the Fighter and Rogue classes; a weird-and-different caster style that I would say ends up more castery than a half-caster but less than a full caster in the Warlock, and Monks are less than 1/3 casters, getting a handful of ki-point-costing spells if they choose specific subclasses, and a single all-day-long sanctuary with the other subclass, and of course the 18th-level, high-ki-cost astral projection.
So everybody could POTENTIALLY be casters now. Even Fighters. The non-casters. I think that blows some people's minds, especially if they haven't been following the reveals and discussions on these boards for the last several weeks.
"So everybody could POTENTIALLY be casters now."
Everybody could potentially be casters (if they had the right stats) since 1st edition.
Am I missing your point?
DemoMonkey wrote:
Actually I did mean that you could dual class into a casting class in 1st and 2nd, or multiclass into one in 3rd and 5th, or take a multiclass feat or build a hybrid character in 4E.
So you could always be a fighter or rogue with spellcasting. It's not a new thing. The post I was responding to didn't mention anything about "without multi-classing", which shaped my response.
Thank youi for clarifying it for me.
Yep. High elf assassins get unlimited True Strike.
TheLyons wrote:
DemoMonkey wrote:
Kalani wrote:
ChrisCarlson wrote:
Kalani wrote:
Kalani wrote:
Mephi1234 wrote:
Crap, I was thinking of one of the playtests. I stand corrected. The final rogue doesn't get Extra Attack - which does alter the equation somewhat.
Still, a guaranteed sneak attack once every second turn is still something I call situationally beneficial. It is a risk however, as multiple things can result in you potentially wasting your action casting True Strike, such as:
- An ally dropping the target of True Strike before your next turn.
- A circumstance, spell, or condition changes that grants you advantage against that target regardless of your action.
- You have disadvantage (or gain disadvantage) for any reason.
- You are restrained, incapacitated, or otherwise prevented from attacking the target on your next turn.
In addition, I am sure some players won't want to "skip" their action every second turn, even if it results in more damage long-term (due to more frequent sneak attacks, the above circumstances not withstanding).
As I said earlier, it is of situational benefit - but being too predictable will result in intelligent enemies playing around your tactics, and exploiting them.
TheLyons wrote:
One of the reasons for adding spellcasting to all the classes was for groups who are not going to use multiclassing in 5th. I like the mix of adding spellcasting from classes and the feat to add spells as a way of dipping into specasters without having too worry about 3rd edition traps. Whereas if you do use multiclassing you do have to kinda build you PC in advance(although not as bad as 3rd). I also want to point out that they should have added a ragemage for the barbarian that would multiclass good with the sorcerer.
Kalani wrote:
It was a suggestion, and no I have not tested the theory. It is certainly not a matter of warlock bias on my part. I just find warlock multiclassing goes against stated design goals regarding casters not falling behind in spellcasting. One small advantage though, is that cantrip scaling is most likely based on character level so mc warlocks at least have that going for them. The alternatives are class level and spellcasting level*, both of which would cause cantrips to fall behind for mc characters. Given the fact that elven characters can pick up a wizard cantrip, and all characters can pick up cantrips from any spellcasting class (Spell Sniper and/or Magic Initiate) - going with character level makes the most sense and causes the least amount of rules disruption and "trap" choices.
I took a look at the numbers, and for a similar house rule I would try adding ¼ of the multiclass spellcasting level to the warlock level for purposes of warlock spell slots and Mystic Arcanum, and not adding any multiple of the warlock level to the muticlass spellcasting level.
Warlocks get a big boost going from 8th to 11th level, giving a Warlock 8/Caster 12 a lot of spell slots under such a modified system.