Hi, everybody,
I really like D&D 5th edition so far, and the subject of this topic is not really a great issue, but is everyone fine and ok with High Elves having a free bonus cantrip as a racial trait? Personally I'm not, it seems almost like the days of the BECMI, or of OD&D, when the Elves had to be fighter - magic users. Still, many elven characters from fantasy novels, even D&D novels, never cast a spell, because they weren't magic users: Laurana and Alhana Starbreeze, just to name a few from the Dragonlance novels.
Playing a Wood Elf couldn' be an option, since, at least from the falvour of the description in the PHB, they seem more similar to Wild Elves, Grugach or Kagonesti Elves rather than to Qualinesti or simply "not spell casting High Elves".
I know that Elves are an inherently magical race, and that it could be also a matter of game balance, since now mountain dwarves are able to cast spells in armor right from the very first level, nevertheless I'd like there were a variant high elven racial trait a player could choose to replace the Bonus Cantrip, if she feels so.
What do you think?
Many thanks, happy life and happy gaming,
Fenn Grunberg
There's no balance issue with it.
As for flavor, i change mine each setting.
Its not over powered balance wise. Doesn't quite sit right if you played pre 4E D&D though.
I see no reason you couldn't replace it.
But what would you replace it with? Feat is too strong. Skill profieincy is arguably too weak.
Also, there's a few cantrips which don't feel incredibly magical or could arguably be accomplished without magic. Consider those as well.
IxidorRS wrote:
What about advantage on INT, WIS, and CHA saves, similar to Gnome Cunning?
MechaPilot wrote:
Fenn_Grunberg wrote:
The cantrip makes a lot of sense for high elves, just as the weapon proficiencies make sense. All high elves are trained in the arts of swordplay, archery, and the basics of magic. These are all highly prized in high elven culture, just like stonework is highly prized in dwarven culture.
Also of note, elven adventures are typically young adults are older, and elves don't claim young adulthood until 100 years of age. Their bodies grow as fast as a humans, but they wait for more of a mental maturity to claim adulthood. I don't believe the PHB even has statistics to provide for an elf starting under the age of 100.
Here are quotes about elves from the basic PDF:
Elves are a magical people of otherworldly grace,living in the world but not entirely part of it. They live in places of ethereal beauty, in the midst of ancient forests or in silvery spires glittering with faerie light, where soft music drifts through the air and gentle fragrances waft on the breeze. Elves love nature and magic, art and artistry, music and poetry, and the good things of the world.
...
Your elf character has a variety of natural abilities, the result of thousands of years of elven refinement.
Cyber-Dave wrote:
Cyber-Dave wrote:
IxidorRS wrote:
Give them expertise in two skills of their choice from the list of: Arcana, History, Nature, Performance, or Persuasion.
MechaPilot wrote:
Fenn_Grunberg wrote:
Maybe Laurana and Alhana could cast cantrips, they just never bothered to do so.
MechaPilot wrote:
Or just pick a (fluffed) Wood Elf...? 
pukunui wrote:
The core problem is that the OP, like me, wants the rules to apply to everything. Every PC and every NPC high elf.
But the book isn't written with that assumption. It's talking about every PC high elf when it says that every high elf knows a cantrip. Not necessarily every NPC high elf. That's why they didn't even consider the possible impact this could have on world-building.
So if you want your world to make sense with all of the rules applying to everything, you will have to alter it or accept a very specific kind of world. If you don't care about applying the rules to everything equally, then it's a fine power and there's nothing wrong with it.
Rastapopoulos wrote:
Shedeo wrote:
Shedeo wrote:
Rastapopoulos wrote:
I like it--but then again, I houseruled in some cantrips for grey elves in 3e.
If you don't want to completely change the rules, but it if feeling like there is a bit too much required magical feeling for elves, I'd recommend mending or message, for the majority of elves. Message in particular allows elves hiding in the woods to whisper phrases to interlopers and really freak them out. It's magical, but subtle.
If you want high elves who really have no magic at all (which I think was a really unfortunate thing that 1e to 3e D&D did), yeah, it's going to take house rules. I think the suggestion upthread about handing out a couple skill proficiencies is a good bet.
Mistwell wrote:
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MechaPilot wrote:
What the OP has is a Grognard problem. It wasnt in D&D 20 to 40 years ago ergo it seems wrong/bad. Sorry there are 2 real solutions 1. A time machine 2. Adapt to the times (which for most Grognards is like puting a pistol in your mouth).
@Dave:
I appreciate your reasoned response, especially the modification of the added damage numbers, as well as the non-antagonistic tone of your reply.
Based on our discussion, I think that I would be fine with expanding the rule to all the weapons in the elf weapon training ability, restricting it so that it only applies when you take an attack action, and further restricting it so your ability modifier didn't apply to the attack. I feel that with those modifications the ability hits the bare minimum of what I would say is an acceptable replacement for a cantrip, though I realize that your opinion may well differ on that.
With regard to High Elves being the best archers with this ability, I took a look at the Wood Elf subrace. I think I would be comfortable with allowing a player of a Wood Elf character to swap Mask of the Wild for the proposed ability.
Lady_Auralla wrote:
MechaPilot wrote:
Can anyone tell me why they feel that the high elven cantrip is so bad? What problems is it causing? And how is this one specific ability causing an issue, but other racial abilities are not? It seems not only flavorful, the ability makes sense, and is not overpowered, at all. I just can't see why some have taken the ban hammer to it, and some that ban it don't even replace it with anything else at all. It's just gone, forever, like a piece of your high elven soul that should be yours but you can never, ever get it no matter what you do......
short answer yes. But I did start with the red box. So elves were fighter/ mages from the start.
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