Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Ylalang Nov 08, 2014 8:32:49	Hello All Last week our DM killed us all... We were a group of 5 (4 of level 3 and 1 of level 2) in the starter set adventure. We juste arrived in the ruin of Thundertree and talked with the druid who told us we must kill the green dragon inthe tower... As with the red mark, is has been difficult to deal with the boss because we kept fiew hit point and only cantrips, we decided to go to deal with the dragon while we were full of spells and hit points! I tried to explain to the rest of the group that a green dragon at our level was a huge challenge, the smell of the dragon an its treasure makes my friends deaf. We manage to take him more than 3/4 of its it point, but we finish by being killed one by one by the dragon. I am very sad of the story finishing in such a short cut. The master told us we should not have gone in thundertree first and that exploting the ruin first would have allowed us to get some stuff which would have help us very much to defeat the dragon.   I am very disappointed and think that some mechanism is missing in the scenario in order to prevent such thing to occure.   Does anybody has any hint about that?   Ylalang from France
#2 iserith Nov 08, 2014 8:49:40	Ylalang wrote:
#3 CCS Nov 08, 2014 9:06:20	The mechanism is called information..... YOU apparently know this as you tried to warn your fellow players. But it also falls on the DM to provide info. Yes, the druid said "go kill that dragon". But maybe he (the druid) should have also warned the party that the dragon was too strong for you atm & recommended raiding the ruins 1st. And like was said, there's no winning/losing in this game.
(Reply to #2) Ylalang	Merci beaucoup!   Thank you very much for your answer.   I was thinking something was amiss, and if the dragon has to flee when he lost 50 % of its hit points, then the scenario is well balanced (we remove more than 100 HP over 136 after all!)   I understand all you wrote, by myself, I guess that when all the party is killed by an overwhelming challenge everybody lost!   Of course it is possible to die (and I lost my paladin in the final combat vs the red mark wizard, and it is a memorable story), but for me going to the butchery is not having good time.   However as you wrote : "That's his prerogative, of course"   Thanks
#5 joeburgos Nov 08, 2014 11:06:39	Ylalang wrote:
#6 The_Jester Nov 08, 2014 12:37:42	The dragon is meant to be a hard fight. I think the writer of the adventure wanted to emphasise that not every fight would be fair and that not every encounter can be defeated by attacking from the front.   I think the green dragon is meant to be a nasty opponent you either avoid, defeat by trickery, or flee from and return to face later.    The DM killing you? Arguably a dick move. Or they could be trying to instill some fear into you, emphasising that he is not going to hold back and the party has to play smarter.
#7 CCS Nov 08, 2014 17:45:09	So you lost an entire party to this dragon. How do you plan to proceed? New adventure? Reboot this one? Pick up the story with new heros? Personally I'd choose the later. Town/druid still has a dragon problem, so they still need heroes.... Maybe this time the druid points out that the ruins may contain something useful vs the dragon. Or who knows, maybe the druid is in league with the dragon & is feeding it adventurers.....
#8 Sword_of_Spirit Nov 13, 2014 13:10:49	The dragon isn't necessarily meant to be defeated, even by characters of higher levels.   I think part of the idea of this as a starter adventure is to set out the standard for 5e not necessarily being a set of perfectly balanced encounters, and that you might run into stuff that you just can't beat (head on, or even at all), and discretion may be the better part of valor.
#9 Touc Nov 14, 2014 8:34:16	I hesitate to agree that the "DM killed us all." The players made a decision to hunt down a very dangerous creature for its treasure hoard and reaped the consequences of that decision. The dragon is designed to be optional. The dragon does not wander the town or hunt down the players. It is stationary and a reminder that not everything in D&D is "level-appropriate." Wander too far and you'll find great wonders and dangerous beasts. This one can be defeated, but only by the most cunning and prepared adventurers (or very lucky ones!)   As a final thought, the DM shouldn't be telling you how you should have handled the encounter. That's not his job. The D&D story is created by the actions of the players, and while not every story ends happily, it's something you create. I suggest creating some new characters who perhaps will have a drink toasting the bravery of those adventurers who ventured out and never came back. May their new story be all the more compelling.
#10 awogaman Nov 14, 2014 9:59:00	Ylalang wrote:
#11 FFSAA Nov 14, 2014 14:00:15	Touc wrote:
#12 iserith Nov 14, 2014 14:36:06	A player can just say, "Drawing upon my prowess as a warrior (or my knowledge of the arcane or natural worlds, etc.), I try to determine if we are overmatched by this dragon." As that is a player describing what he wants to do, the DM is then obligated to narrate the results of the adventurer's action which means the DM will either say the action succeeds, fails, or asks for an ability check to determine the outcome.
(Reply to #12) Timborama	iserith wrote:
(Reply to #7) Ylalang	CCS wrote: