| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
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| #1Spartan506Oct 05, 2014 8:14:08 | MM page 197 has the stat block for the Kraken, a Garguantuan Monstrostity (Titan). It is listed as CR 23, and 50,000 XP.
Something is not right, I think, because the Ancient Blue Dragon, Ancient Silver Dragon and Empyrean all have CR 23 and 32,500 XP. Likewise, the Ancient Gold Dragon and Ancient Red Dragon are CR 24 and 36,500 XP.
So should the Kraken be something else (CR 25, perhaps?) or is the XP wrong?
It is the 3rd highest CR rating in the book, but the 2nd highest XP.
EDIT:
It was noticeable as I was going through the MM and created an Excel spreadsheet that lists all the entries by Name/Size/Type/Tag/Alignment/CR/XP/Page Number for easy reference and sorting. Handy reference for DMs. |
| #2IllithidbixOct 05, 2014 9:04:20 | Oddly the Experience Points by Challenge Rating table on page 9 lists CR 23 monsters as giving 50,000 xp As does the Monster by Challenge Rating PDF: http://media.wizards.com/2014/downloads/dnd/MM_MonstersCR.pdf
Challenge 23 (50,000 XP)
You're not going mad though, since my MM also lists the Ancient blue dragon. Ancient silver dragon and Empyrean as worth 32,500 XP... which is slightly less than a CR 21 monster than the Solar (CR 21, 33,000 XP).
So I think the Kraken is actually right, the other three presumably have a triple copy/pasta bug from an earlier XP value table.
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| #3CyberGeekOct 05, 2014 9:57:41 | And that is why is why it is smart to release the product via PDF first, so you can work out the majority of the problems before you go to print. |
| (Reply to #3)Chameleon-X |
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| #5RCanineOct 05, 2014 12:20:30 | Yeah, also extensive public playtesting to catch major and minor problems…
Er... um yeah… |
| #6DavidArgallOct 05, 2014 12:48:39 |
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| #7paulstraitOct 05, 2014 13:01:30 | I really like this MM, but to be honest it is riddled with errors like this. I haven't closely studied the vast majority of monsters inside, but of the few that I have, I have found many errors, e.g., regular drow gain a +3 bonus to their AC from a +1 chain shirt (compared to a non-magical chain shirt), drow elite warriors have reach 10 with their shortswords, Cloud giants have a proficiency bonus of 4 for skills but 3 for saving throws, etc. etc. etc.
I really wish they had considered proofreading... |
| #8setiOct 05, 2014 14:07:21 | "Aaracokra seek signs of the pieces'
known not know.
Spelling/grammar error in the 1st monster entry. And there are many more mistakes, sadly. WotC doesn't know how to hire a good copy editor. It really pisses off my mom, lol. She's a retired newspaper editor, and a D&D fan. |
| #9TheLyonsOct 05, 2014 15:41:54 | I can see the dragons having less xp because the party will generally get a metric crap ton of treasure from a dragon compared to a kraken most of the time. |
| #10pukunuiOct 05, 2014 15:59:12 | The XP values *may* not be an error, but I can't say for sure since the alpha MM mostly just had a $ for the CR and XP values, so we weren't able to provide any feedback/proofreading on them.
While there are plenty of other math errors in the entries (eg. The banshee's Cha save should be +5 not +4), I would like to think there aren't as many as there might have been thanks to the keen eyes of my fellow alpha testers.
After all, if they didn't appreciate the feedback we gave them, our names wouldn't be in the credits. #humblebrag |
| #11BumamgarOct 05, 2014 16:14:13 | Yeah, I am bugged that they misspelled the Aarakocra in the Serach for the Seven Shards block. I mean, that is pretty bad, as clearly Aarakocra showed up in spell check, and one would assume they added the correct spelling to their dictionary, so the incorrectly spelled version should have flagged. Its one thing to substitute 'know' for 'known' as at least both of those words are correctly spelled, but one would think a decent grammar check would catch it. I know Word 2007 does, as I just checked
Math errors are bad, but simple spelling / grammar errors are inexcusable in this modern age. |
| #12Spartan506Oct 05, 2014 16:29:55 |
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| #13RCanineOct 05, 2014 16:38:07 |
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| #14CCSOct 05, 2014 17:54:20 | But remember folks, this staggered release schedule of the 3 core books allows WoTC to really polish things! |
| #15MechaPilotOct 05, 2014 18:34:14 |
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| #16KentusOct 05, 2014 18:54:05 | CR and XP-value aren't always coherent.
CR is the value at which a monster becomes beatable for a 3-5 party without too much threat. An ogre can kill off a ast level character with one hit, for example, so he got CR 2, where most characters gets enough beef to withstand it. Another case would be the rakshasa, which is stat-wise not much of a threat as a CR 13 monster, but his spell immunity makes him much harder to beat, since casters of lower levels would be laughed at. So the rakshasa got less XP than his CR would suggest. |
| (Reply to #15)seti |
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| #18MechaPilotOct 05, 2014 19:47:49 |
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| #19BumamgarOct 06, 2014 10:56:49 |
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| #20pukunuiOct 06, 2014 13:49:19 | In my idealistic youth, I would've railed against the typos, but as I've gotten older, I've become more pragmatic. While I still notice typos without looking for them, they don't bother me like they used to. Unless they impact on the clarity of the game mechanics, they really are unimportant. We are all human. No book is completely error free. Even Tolkien admitted that revisions of his works introduced as many new typos as they fixed existing ones. |
| #21MechaPilotOct 06, 2014 18:22:19 |
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| #22ArkPandaOct 06, 2014 19:04:10 |
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| #23kalilOct 06, 2014 22:19:08 | I always thought that CR was the approximate level where the monster presents a suitable challenge and the XP is the DM "budget" for encounter building. I.e. two monsters with the same CR could have significantly different XP totals depending on if the monster in question is a suitable challenge for an entire party, or if it is more something you fight ten at the time.
If CR 20 dragons award the same XP as CR 20 foot soldiers then, IMHO, the design team has dropped the ball. |
| #24BumamgarOct 07, 2014 5:04:49 |
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| (Reply to #23)Timborama |
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| #26FFSAAOct 07, 2014 10:49:44 |
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| (Reply to #26)Timborama |
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| #28RCanineOct 07, 2014 12:42:51 |
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| #29IllithidbixOct 07, 2014 13:12:27 | The slightly confusing thing is that 5E's challenge rating and encounter system is kinda a mix of 4E and 3E. But isn't either of them.
It's kinda explained in the DM Basic PDF. http://media.wizards.com/2014/downloads/dnd/DMDnDBasicRules_v0.1.pdf
Challenge Rating determines 3 things. 1) The number of experience points (XP) a monster is worth is based on its challenge rating. See the Experience by Challenge Rating table in the DM Basic PDF or MM. Note, this isn't a range, every CR 20 monster should be worth 25,000 XP. Hence it looks like there are... 3 typos with CR23 monsters.
2) The level you can throw the monster at players and expect them to be able to cope with it's special abilities and attacks.
3) Roughly if you put the XP value of a CR X monster into the Encounter Guidelines they are a Hard Encounter for a party of 4 level X players. And this is partially how CR is defined:
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| #30pedro2112Oct 08, 2014 22:22:42 | Are they assuming a lower CR number if they are not in their respective lairs for the dragons? |