Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 edwin_su Apr 06, 2015 8:13:12	escapist interview with Jeremy Crawford. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/tabletop/13729-An-Interview-With-Jeremy-Crawford-Co-Designer-and-Editor-of-Dung
#2 edwin_su Apr 06, 2015 8:18:35	People would tell us they hate a rule, but then we look at the rule and it's giving them something they say they want somewhere else in their feedback.   I wonder if one of the points where this happend was natural healing, and the full over night heal. On one side people saying they diden't like the full over night heal, but also saying they wanted somplicity in the game and the full heal being the simplest option.
#3 bawylie Apr 06, 2015 9:10:07	Hold on, did I miss the interview? This was a summary on Crawford's kvetching.
(Reply to #2) AaronOfBarbaria	edwin_su wrote:
#5 bawylie Apr 06, 2015 9:51:43	Y'know, when you have a rule that takes a character out of action, it also takes the player out of the game. Or it can. And while that can be fun for a time, most players are there to play, not spectate.    So you either have to find a way for them to play while they're "out" (such as refocusing on downtime or something) , or you have to get the character back "in" as fast as you can.    A little off topic, but it's causing me to think about lingering wounds vs participation. Long term game consequences and their relationship to actual play.
#6 dmgorgon Apr 06, 2015 12:59:34	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
(Reply to #6) AaronOfBarbaria	dmgorgon wrote:
#8 abs1nth Apr 06, 2015 15:52:49	I generally like the way healing is done in 5e. I would just like there to be a need to at least sometimes have downtime. I'm thinking about making the number of hit dice regained after long rest 1/4 instead of half of the max. Using at 1st and 2nd lvl roll a d20, 10 or higher you regain one, 10 or lower you regain one next long rest. At 3rd level round it up to 1 every long rest.   The healing variant in the DMG is unfortunately tosh.
(Reply to #8) AaronOfBarbaria	abs1nth wrote:
#10 abs1nth Apr 06, 2015 17:04:40	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
#11 Synjin Apr 06, 2015 17:09:58	Isn't the frequency, and duration of the downtime, completely up to the DM?
#12 iserith Apr 06, 2015 17:14:10	bawylie wrote:
#13 abs1nth Apr 06, 2015 17:23:46	Synjin wrote:
#14 Synjin Apr 06, 2015 17:36:12	abs1nth wrote:
(Reply to #13) AaronOfBarbaria	abs1nth wrote:
#16 dmgorgon Apr 06, 2015 21:13:46	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
#17 dmgorgon Apr 06, 2015 21:18:19	iserith wrote:
#18 Coredump00 Apr 06, 2015 21:22:40	I just don't like the idea of being on deaths door, taking an 8 hour sleep, and waking up fully healed.  Just doesn't 'feel' right to me.   Not saying I want to go back o 1hp a day, nor lingering injuries such as a bad leg, or reduced str arm, or whatever.  Just something more substantial that a good nights sleep.   Currently thinking of a complete day of rest to restore 100% of hit points; not sure if I want to leave the Hit Dice recovery the same or reduced....
#19 lawrencehoy Apr 06, 2015 21:37:17	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
#20 MechaPilot Apr 06, 2015 21:42:27	dmgorgon wrote:
#21 MechaPilot Apr 06, 2015 21:47:39	dmgorgon wrote:
(Reply to #19) AaronOfBarbaria	lawrencehoy wrote:
#23 Rastapopoulos Apr 07, 2015 0:03:12	I find it very odd when people talk about "downtime".    I don't think I ever had any "downtime" in a D&D game. We are always playing the entire time we're at the table.
(Reply to #23) UmbraCarmen	Part of the fun of a campaign - distinct from a scenario - is when the DM tells the players at the end of the session there is a two month gap and to come next time (or via email/dropbox) with what the charcaters have been doing.  This is on-going backstory (if thats not a contracdiction in terms).  A rogue might do some casual second story work (probably net some gold with a small chance of being caught), a wizard research a new spell, a fighter start to excavate a site for a keep.  It is great that there is some basic rules for these things though I would like them to be filled out a bit more.  These things allow the DM to deduct gold from characters keeping them somewhat cash poor and in need of the next adventure.  At best they create opportunities for the DM to bring in new plot points.   Downtime is what can stop the campaign becoming just a series of encounters.  I don't personally like that style of D&D.  Don't get me wrong encounters are the most important part of D&D but the "best" campaigns (IM<HO) are more than this.       Rastapopoulos wrote:
#25 lawrencehoy Apr 07, 2015 3:35:16	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
#26 strider13x Apr 07, 2015 3:38:16	abs1nth wrote:
#27 abs1nth Apr 07, 2015 3:57:57	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
#28 Shasarak Apr 07, 2015 4:37:52	dmgorgon wrote:
#29 iserith Apr 07, 2015 5:58:45	dmgorgon wrote:
(Reply to #29) Lokiron	iserith wrote:
#31 dmgorgon Apr 07, 2015 6:29:04	MechaPilot wrote:
#32 Vahnyu Apr 07, 2015 6:40:07	dmgorgon wrote:
#33 dmgorgon Apr 07, 2015 6:41:05	iserith wrote:
#34 dmgorgon Apr 07, 2015 6:45:58	Vahnyu wrote:
#35 dmgorgon Apr 07, 2015 6:48:57	Shasarak wrote:
#36 iserith Apr 07, 2015 6:49:08	dmgorgon wrote:
#37 kalil Apr 07, 2015 6:53:36	AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
#38 dmgorgon Apr 07, 2015 6:57:25	iserith wrote:
#39 Vahnyu Apr 07, 2015 6:57:44	dmgorgon wrote:
#40 iserith Apr 07, 2015 6:59:33	dmgorgon wrote:
#41 dmgorgon Apr 07, 2015 7:02:49	iserith wrote:
#42 iserith Apr 07, 2015 7:05:28	dmgorgon wrote:
#43 dmgorgon Apr 07, 2015 7:27:13	iserith wrote:
#44 iserith Apr 07, 2015 7:32:34	dmgorgon wrote:
#45 dmgorgon Apr 07, 2015 7:44:24	iserith wrote:
#46 Dark_Stryke Apr 07, 2015 7:49:19	I'm all for working with the players, and I don't see the point in forcing a player to play a character they no longer find fun, for any reason. Whether it's because the character had an arm ripped off by a Sharktopus or the player is just burned out on throwing magic missiles session after session.   For example, one of my players came to me after a session recently and said he wanted to try out a wizard, but didn't want to give up playing his rogue permanently. What could I do about it? I worked with him, and we ended up crafting a story where his rogue fell into a trap that sucked him into the private demi-plane of a demon, and the rest of the party had to rescue him. We made the player's wizard a demonologist who happened to be hunting the same demon. We had an awesome session where the party stormed the abyss itself (or at least a demiplane that might have technically been part of it. Semantics.) to rescue their friend, the player got to try out his wizard, and I'm working with the player to have some long-term emotional scars for his rogue.   Of course, I could have instead called him a sore loser for wanting to quit on his character and kicked him out of the campaign. That would've been pretty good too.
#47 Mommy_was_an_Orc Apr 07, 2015 8:23:46	dmgorgon wrote:
#48 edwin_su Apr 07, 2015 9:53:43	dmgorgon wrote:
#49 bawylie Apr 07, 2015 9:57:07	"Hey guys, we've been doing this adventuring gig a while now and it's been awesome. I got a lot of cash and a sweet thing back home. But, and don't get mad here, but the loss of my leg has really started to slow me down and I'm just not into this as much anymore. I want to retire."   "Oh quit whining! Walk it off, oh, err..."   "Wah-wah, I don't want to fight Orcs with a single leg!"   "You're not willing to most assuredly die in a dark hole? What's wrong with you!"
#50 MrHotter Apr 07, 2015 10:19:19	I just gave a reason why the players would heal overnight.  In my game I say they have 'Hero's/Villians Blood' that allows them to heal fast, live longer, and be immune to most illnesses. Since there are only a few heroes born every generation in my world it helps set them up as the 'chosen ones' who have no chance at having an uninteresting life.   If everyone in the world healed overnight then there would not be much of a need for healers and large scale battles would sure be different without crippled soldiers.
#51 dmgorgon Apr 07, 2015 10:54:23	Mommy_was_an_Orc wrote:
#52 dmgorgon Apr 07, 2015 10:54:03	bawylie wrote:
#53 ChrisCarlson Apr 07, 2015 10:56:30	dmgorgon wrote:
#54 dmgorgon Apr 07, 2015 11:01:52	edwin_su wrote:
#55 dmgorgon Apr 07, 2015 11:08:03	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#56 ChrisCarlson Apr 07, 2015 11:12:23	dmgorgon wrote:
(Reply to #41) AaronOfBarbaria	dmgorgon wrote:
#58 DaomSlayer Apr 07, 2015 11:29:35	This whole time I thought it was Mearls who was in charge and deserved the credit for purging Reaping Strike from 5th edish. Now I believe I owe Crawford an apology, since he's likely the one that killed it in the end.   Thanks Jer. You dun good.
#59 dmgorgon Apr 07, 2015 12:12:39	ChrisCarlson wrote:
#60 edwin_su Apr 07, 2015 12:24:59	dmgorgon wrote:
#61 Shirebrok Apr 07, 2015 19:34:12	I figure that if I have become a liability to my adventuring party / comrades / friends in life-or-death situations, the right thing to do is retire from adventuring life and find another way to help (become an NPC, so to speak).   But then again, I suppose there are a lot of factors to consider in situations like this. Do I know if the remedy I need is available? How accessible is said remedy? In the meantime, can I meaningfully contribute to the party's success or am I just going to be something my allies constantly worry about? Genre expectations and setting could also affect my desicion to retire or not. Grimdark and gritty? Retire if possible; if not, go for one last great heroic act of self-sacrifice. High fantasy/action with blind swordsmen and flashy magic? I'm down for a training montage and a game session or two to overcome a disability (like learning to wield a greataxe or halberd with only one arm; that would be badass).
#62 bawylie Apr 07, 2015 20:25:19	Well I drew a distinction between an unplayable character that turned a player into a glorified spectator, and a drawback or whatever that still fostered fun, active, play.    Setbacks are the name of the game (literally!) - but sitting out the fun is another matter.
#63 Diffan Apr 07, 2015 21:41:57	Energy Drain can be overcome. At certain levels, limb regrowth is plausible. Mechanical arms seem to be another route to. The question becomes: how long will the process take to gain function again? And losing a hand is a LOT less significant than say, a leg or sight. A character can continue with 1 hand, holding a sword and may e retraining their Fighting Style to Duelist instead of say, protection. Losing a leg hampers the ENTIRE group and will be a significant drain on the mission, party resources, and other character's health. Now would I continue to play a character with 1 leg? Depends on how far along we're at in the adventure, what the campaign situation is, and how readily it is to town. If my character is a significant hamper, go ahead and leave me. Prop me up in a place where I can kill some stuff with a bow until I'm overwhelmed. To me, that's not childish or being a sore loser, that's heroism.
#64 The_White_Sorcerer Apr 08, 2015 3:22:51	I think all of us could take a lesson from the Black Knight. You don't see him whining over a minor setback, do you? https://youtu.be/dhRUe-gz690
#65 Zardnaar Apr 08, 2015 21:22:17	The_White_Sorcerer wrote:
(Reply to #41) CCS	dmgorgon wrote:
#67 Auticus Apr 09, 2015 5:45:37	I think the big thing is finding a play group that matches your playstyle.  As I player I prefer games that are hard.  I don't like modern game design where its assumed you are always going to win.  I like to know that if I make a mistake, it will cost my character his life or could at least do so.   As a DM I also create games that match my preferal as a player.   Sometimes that means situations where I am rendered unconscious or disabled for a fight and I have to spectate.  So be it.  The alternative is that I'm either capable of fighting the majority of the time, or dead, which doesn't sit right with me.   I know a lot of people do not like that playstyle though and thats fair enough.
(Reply to #67) Diffan	Auticus wrote:
#69 dmgorgon Apr 09, 2015 7:08:03	CCS wrote:
#70 dmgorgon Apr 09, 2015 7:30:50	edwin_su wrote:
#71 Auticus Apr 09, 2015 7:38:35	I really don't see how that's in any way or shape an accurate portrayal of "modern" game design. I've had many characters die in v3.5, 4E, and even 5E.
#72 dmgorgon Apr 09, 2015 8:11:19	Auticus wrote:
#73 bawylie Apr 09, 2015 8:23:12	No. That's all wrong and it's not modern design either.    Maybe there's something to a hardcore/casual divide, but not a chronological one.    Modern design involves intelligently tailoring challenges and "plot" towards an expected experience. Older design is a sort of grindhousey, die and respawn w/infinite continues (new character) vs whatever monsters were plopped down into the module and whatever the DM felt would be cool to screw their players with.    So if I have casual players who are interested in heroics with setting consequences as win/loss conditions instead of personal consequences like death, modern design says I should write toward that. And if I have hardcore gamers who are willing to risk life and limb for fortune and glory, Modern design is to write That. And if I have Machiavellian masterminds who want to play a game of thrones, modern design says I write that.    Older design is you're doing what the DM wrote or bought regardless of whether that's of interest to you.
#74 Auticus Apr 09, 2015 8:31:51	Maybe design wasn't the right word then.  Maybe its "modern expectations/philosophy".  I used the word design because many game designers I'm finding fall into that modern expectation/philosophy and design their adventures accordingly.
#75 FFSAA Apr 09, 2015 8:35:11	I don't see any football players scoring TDs with a peg leg and the opposing team isn't trying to kill and eat them.  Retiring to start that inn with all the adventure hooks or getting a boat and doing some high seas piracy with your own hook makes perfect sense.
#76 Delazar78 Apr 09, 2015 8:37:30	I recently came to terms with the "sleep one night, recover all hit points" thingy. I was reading the Council of Owls arc from Batman (wonderful arc, btw), and there's this scene where Bats gets the living crap beaten out of him, ending with a nice stabbing in the back, something like a half a meter of metal sticking out of his spleen.   So he's on the ground, and the enemy approaches to finish him off, and Bats stands up, and makes his monologue about "evil can never win blah bla" while kicking his opponent's butt.   After he defeats the bad guy, he crawls back to the bat-cave to recover. One day after, he's all covered in bandages, but still he puts on his suit, and goes out kicking more butts, with Alfred saying "nah, stay, you're one big bat ball of hurt!".   Sooo... in my mind, I don't even call them "hit points" anymore, I call them "fight points". When all your fights points are gone, you fall... but given a chance to rest, you're back into the fight! And even though you're at full HP, you can still RP your wounds of the day before as hurting you. Sure, you're full of scars, and your bandages are soaked, but hey, the Fight is still in you!   To tell the truth, I wouldn't mind hit points to be an "encounter" resource, instead of "daily"... of course they would have to be less than what they are now.
#77 cassi_brazuca Apr 09, 2015 8:37:57	Now, people, just want to give you some information about fourth edition. It’s not much of a defense as it is a part-acknowledgement and part-rant. So, in terms of 4e: Pre Monster Manual 3 monsters are widely known to be quite weak for the wealth of options PCs had in this edition. Especially the Solo ones just didn’t have what they need to have to survive, being just a bag of hit points to kill. However, they got smarter in the monster field. With time. Solo monsters gained some new powers, and the update of Monster Manual 3 made the monsters much more dangerous to face. I remember running a difficult-level encounter with monsters made with the updated guidelines. They had to flee. However, this updated also meant that every single monster launched before is completely outdated and useless without working in all their statistics. You can figure out how that was received by the fanbase. Honestly, I didn’t like the fluff of “Legendary Monsters” but they seem to be using lessons learned from 4e. Although there are two things that I must tell you: According to sources, early playtest of 4e’s core books also said that, at high levels, math was bad. Monsters had too much HP, too little damage, and they just were too easy but it took too long to defeat. That means hours-long combats with no real chance of losing. However, not only in that case but also in all math problems, they ignored this data. What happened? Errata avalanche that was what happened. In case of badly made bosses: Apparently, video games had that problem or at least predicted them. They are far ahead us in that department. Although there’s a tendency to just make the games easier in the sum of things, bosses have the intended level of difficulty. Usually. There’s at least a difficulty bar option. The thing is: video game bosses are much better made than early 4e bosses, and were like this way before the edition even was conceived.
#78 dmgorgon Apr 09, 2015 8:43:21	FFSAA wrote:
(Reply to #74) bawylie	Auticus wrote:
#80 dmgorgon Apr 09, 2015 8:46:29	bawylie wrote:
(Reply to #80) bawylie	dmgorgon wrote:
#82 FFSAA Apr 09, 2015 9:59:13	Delazar78 wrote:
#83 bawylie Apr 09, 2015 10:03:13	The best batman comics are where Bruce is laying around in traction watching daytime TV for weeks at a time. None of this "picking yourself up and fighting on because it's right, even when it's hard" pre-teen drivel for me. I want writing where NOTHING happens. Old Man and the Sea has TOO MUCH drama, and that's the story of a guy who doesn't catch a fish.
#84 iserith Apr 09, 2015 10:11:24	bawylie wrote:
#85 Istbor Apr 09, 2015 10:48:46	iserith wrote:
#86 bawylie Apr 09, 2015 11:08:55	Alfred's fault for making pork & bean burritos during recovery.
#87 dmgorgon Apr 09, 2015 11:11:05	bawylie wrote:
(Reply to #86) AaronOfBarbaria	bawylie wrote:
(Reply to #87) bawylie	dmgorgon wrote:
#90 dmgorgon Apr 09, 2015 13:21:48	bawylie wrote:
#91 bawylie Apr 09, 2015 13:31:42	I mean, ok, but the statement works for Ravenloft. "This is horror. Run it horror." Only, they weren't so explicit about how to do that. It's there, but not like a fully formed "here's the stuff that will help you horror" it's more like "horror saves and there's a madness meter and then dark powers checks and you're insane! Done!"    So im not talking about products per se. I'm talking about experiences.
#92 dmgorgon Apr 09, 2015 13:44:05	bawylie wrote:
(Reply to #92) bawylie	dmgorgon wrote:
#94 paulstrait Apr 09, 2015 14:50:11	bawylie wrote:
(Reply to #69) CCS	dmgorgon wrote:
#96 abs1nth Apr 09, 2015 17:43:00	paulstrait wrote:
#97 iserith Apr 09, 2015 17:59:01	Dead Gods is pretty good. The Great Modron March, which is less good, leads into it. I also liked Harbinger House and Fires of Dis.
#98 Shasarak Apr 09, 2015 18:06:56	bawylie wrote:
#99 paulstrait Apr 09, 2015 21:32:55	iserith wrote:
#100 Auticus Apr 10, 2015 5:28:07	Dead Gods was a lot of fun.
#101 abs1nth Apr 10, 2015 5:43:27	paulstrait wrote:
#102 Diffan Apr 10, 2015 6:05:12	So here's a question: how much work or difficulty would it be to convert these awesome adventures to 5e?
#103 iserith Apr 10, 2015 6:39:14	Diffan wrote:
#104 dmgorgon Apr 10, 2015 6:39:20	bawylie wrote:
#105 dmgorgon Apr 10, 2015 6:45:44	paulstrait wrote:
#106 dmgorgon Apr 10, 2015 6:54:01	abs1nth wrote:
#107 Orethalion Apr 10, 2015 7:45:55	bawylie wrote:
#108 Orethalion Apr 10, 2015 7:48:05	dmgorgon wrote:
#109 bawylie Apr 10, 2015 8:12:53	Yeah, like when they really got into it. It was much better.    Like, remember when we were kicking around ideas for a MM and someone suggested the statblock alongside a short/micro story about someone's interaction with that monster? This sort of world-building stuff that reinforces the experience and the ambiance and atmosphere. That's the (more) modern trend, I feel.