Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Person_Man Jul 15, 2014 7:22:00	I find the 5E Stealth and Hiding rules to be deeply confusing.   My Lightfoot Halfling Rogue is standing behind a 5 ft wide and 10 ft tall stone column which provides total cover against two Ogres standing on the other side of it.   My Rogue moves out from behind the wall, uses his Action to make a melee attack against one of the Ogres, moves back behind the wall, the Ogre misses me with his Opportunity Attack, and then my Rogue uses Cunning Action to use his Bonus Action to Hide.  Assuming that my Stealth check beats their Perception checks; Does the enemy forget that he just saw me move behind the wall because I'm now hidden? Other then avoiding the Opportunity Attack, does it make any difference if I only stepped out from behind the column to make a ranged attack, instead of moving next to an Ogre to make a melee attack? One of the Ogres is actually an Ogre Mage.  Can he target me with an area of effect spell even thogh I'm hidden? If one of the Ogres circles around to my left.  At what point do I cease to be hidden?  Or do I remain hidden even if he circles directly behind me.  Replace the word "5 ft wide and 10 ft tall stone column" with 5 ft of dense trees.  If I'm hiding within the trees, can the Ogres attack my space and still hit me somehow? Replace the word "5 ft wide and 10 ft tall stone column" with "my Medium sized Fighter ally that I hide behind using my Naturally Stealthy ability."  Can I still hide behind my Medium Fighter ally even though the Ogre's are Large?  If my Medium Fighter ally moves, do I remain hidden from the Ogres? If Ogre 1 is standing in front of Ogre 2, can I hide behind Ogre 1 in order to be hidden from Ogre 2? If the default for 5E is to do everything in the "theatre of the mind" and not with miniatures, how am I as a DM supposed to honestly manage all of this?  If I need to track every creature's exact position on the battlefield in order to adjudicate the Stealth rules honestly, then I might as well use miniatures on a physical map.  Or do I just hand wave all of the above and treat Stealth like Invisibility that requires a Skill check?   It seems like the designers wanted to do something nice for Rogues, and I'm 100% in favor of making Rogues more useful and interesting.  But it seems like the use of Stealth in combat is going to be inhearently confusing and ripe for abuse, and that the rules should be modified so that you can't hide from an enemy that is aware of your presence unless you are retreating from combat.
#2 BoldItalic Jul 15, 2014 8:02:58	Don't worry, your DM will decide.
#3 Arithezoo Jul 15, 2014 8:12:08	My answers in bold. Person_Man wrote:
#4 bawylie Jul 15, 2014 8:15:49	Hidden simply means they don't know where you are, precisely.    They dont forget they saw you, but they don't know where you are. If an ogre comes round the pillar, and there's nothing else to keep you hidden, you're automatically spotted.    They might lob grenades at or near the pillar which may affect you, but they can't attack you directly b/c they don't know where you are. And you remain hidden until conditions change - like maybe they sniff you out (wisdom perception vs dexterity stealth). If they beat you on the contest, you're no longer hidden (even though the pillar still grants some cover).    Another condition change is if you're hiding behind an ally and the ally leaves. There's nothing to hide behind so you're no longer hidden.   You can't use one enemy to hide behind another enemy when either is aware of you. But you can if neither are aware of you.    Use a little common sense and be generous in the rulings.
#5 Lawolf Jul 15, 2014 8:21:43	Also note that being invisible in 5e doesn't do all that much for you. Unless you use your action to hide while invisible, enemies know your exact location. An invisible creature must hide every time they move or give their presence away. All invisibility does is allow one to hide without requiring cover or concealment (and attacks against you have disadvantage).
#6 souldoubt Jul 15, 2014 8:31:44	Firstly, use common sense.  You're making this a lot more complicated for yourself than it actually is.   Secondly, hiding during combat isn't for avoiding melee attackers like ogres, except insofar as it forces them to suss out your location before they can smash you.  Hiding during combat is most effectively used to avoid being targeted by ranged attacks and single-target spells.  If your lightfoot halfling hides behind his medium-sized fighter friend, the goblin archers can't target your halfling with arrows, and the evil wizard can't cast magic missile on him.  The ogres, however, can potentially just step around and immediately spot him.
#7 kill_the_wiz_first Jul 15, 2014 10:30:29	You're not hidden though you have effectively taken Cover (if the attacker has no more movement remaining). Just let the scene play out with the narrative presented by both player and DM and you'll never run into a statistical issue that requires mathmatical resolve because logic already removed that requirment.
#8 dmgorgon Jul 15, 2014 11:57:17	In 5e you can be fighting 20 invisible flying kobolds and you'll know exactly where each one of them is located.    I suggest you just make your own set of rules that makes more sense.
#9 Crimson_red Jul 15, 2014 13:04:03	Person_Man wrote:
#10 Lawolf Jul 15, 2014 12:21:28	dmgorgon wrote:
#11 thehobb Jul 15, 2014 12:23:42
(Reply to #6) Person_Man	souldoubt wrote:
#13 Rastapopoulos Jul 15, 2014 13:03:31	Person_Man wrote:
#14 strider13x Jul 15, 2014 13:12:07	Being vague is why the 5e rules are so much fun! Players can't find loopholes in rules that do not exist! Be a DM and make a ruling!!!   And, yes, I DM for my 10 year old son and my girlfriend who has never player an TTRPG before. They don't have any issues because of common sense.