fantasygrounds Officially Licensed D&D Products
https://www.fantasygrounds.com/buyFG/DungeonsAndDragons.html
And we finally have digital support.
I was kinda hoping for roll20 though.
But...WotC isn't working on any kinds of digital tools...
Interesting. Nothing mentioned about "exclusive"... so it may be coming to roll20 etc.
mellored wrote:
I use Roll20, but that's really more because it has native G+ support. But this does look nice.
Tempest_Stormwind wrote:
That's nice that they've finally done something on the digital tools front. That interface, though ...
I think I'll pass.
I am glad to see that there is something being offered for those that want digital tools.
I seem to recall my experience with Fantasy Grounds basically being summarized as me fiddling with custom maps and tokens and never actually using the program, so I can't really say anything regarding its functionality - but I do recall liking the way the program looked at the time (this was probably 5 years ago though).
I hope it does well for them... though I expect that there will be complaints about the pricing (but then, that's just the truth about anything that has any price these days).
Smiteworks has been addressing people's questions and concerns over at EN World.
So, to use the Fantasy Grounds tools to run D&D 5e, and not have each of my players pay individually for it, it looks like I have to fork over $250. No thank you, I'll stick to roll20.
Roll 20 has the marketplace. Can't WotC have someone port their adventures over to Roll20 and let us pay to add it to our campaign?
I know it took me a while to create the whole adventure for use in Roll20 and what I made probably looks much worse than what someone at WotC could make.
$250?!?
bawylie wrote:
To quote the Fantasy Grounds people (from the EN World thread):
Smiteworks wrote:
If they can deliver on (even roughly) same time release of their data packs and the hard-copy products to which they relate, that even replaces the need for PDFs (among anyone that buys a Fantasy Grounds license, anyways).
That gives it an aspect a little bit like D&D Insider.
the thing i just keep looking at is what can they offer that i can't just as easily get from roll20...and for free? i mean the price seems a bit ridiculous to me for what they're offering and announcing....not to mention the quest will be how it actually is once people start using it, and will they stick to that quality of work as it goes foward.
Tempest_Stormwind wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
daspian wrote:
paulstrait wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Fantasy Grounds costs about the same amount as the core books or Europa Unversalis IV and all the expansion packs for it. That is a fair bit of moolah to pay for the privlege of not smelling random D&D pick up players.
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
paulstrait wrote:
paulstrait wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
I'm very excited about Fantasy Grounds. I switched over to it about 6 months ago. I started by just doing the $9.99 monthly subscription for DM ultimate and then they had a sale for lifetime access so I paid for that.
It is a very polished table. I've been working with another guy to create characters, monsters and use maps that I scan or get from other souces online.
I'm not sure if/when I'll buy the Core Classes and Monsters (since I've made a lot of it on my own), but eventually I probably will.
It is slick. Definitely premium product.
Wow, so my comment that criticised this product was deleted without even a moderator comment to say that something was deleted. Censorship has been taken to a whole new level here it seems.
pukunui wrote:
pukunui wrote:
paulstrait wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
paulstrait wrote:
I wonder if the macros and other such things can be ported into tabletopconnect. 2d overhead maps like roll20 and this are getting to be as old school as pen and paper in some ways. The 3d maps and minis in tabletop appeal to me more than a round token. I'm not familiar with fantasy ground so does it have fog of war or ambient lighting setting?
I am glad they got some sort of digital tool for characters out. Granted its not like herolabs as far as character generator or doesn't appear to be but it is something for us fans to us.
So am I rading this right, the cost they ask for only gets me the content from the free pdf and that is it? What exactly am I paying for then? The right to run my games using their virtual tool?
I guess I am missing something here, need some help.
dafrca wrote:
While I think a suite of digital tools for 5E is a step in the right direction I don't think I will be getting this. Fantasy Grounds is too expensive for what they are asking. I am honestly very surprised WOTC chose not to go with HERO LAB for their third party digital tools. I know pretty much every other game system is using HERO LAB. You still have to pay but the cost is only like 30 bucks for HL and then maybe 30 for whatever game set you are using. 60 BUCKS (or 30 if you already use HL for other games) is reasonable, plus I wouldn't have to download and learn new software.
I don't know maybe this will be wildly popular but I just can't see it, not for the price and not when I already have a system that I use for other games on my PC.
dafrca wrote:
Fallstorm wrote:
WotC is really dead set on that $50 price point.
Fallstorm wrote:
Shasarak wrote:
I'm a hardback book kind of person. Why is that people who want things digital feel like they should have it cheaper than the rest of us?
arnwolf666 wrote:
Let's face it. Licensed material is always overpriced. Just look at the cost of licensed Lego sets and anything with the Star Wars logo on it.
I'm glad they did something digital.
The pricing is ludicrous though, especially when you compare to something like roll20 which is free!
TL;DR: Getting mad at WotC for this is like getting mad at an author for allowing an acting troupe to perform a stage adaptation of his book. Why didn't he single-handedly produce a movie instead like that last time he failed horribly at it!? Why do I have to pay for book all over again just to see it in a ritzy theater!? Why can't the author force my local low-budget Community Theater to perform it even though they have neither the interest nor resources to put on the show?!
As someone who's been using FantasyGrounds for years, and has a pretty good read on that community, I have a reasonably educated gut feeling about the following:
- FantasyGrounds was NOT contracted out by WotC to create these tools. FG has been in the business for an eternity, and they make an effort to reach out to game publishers for PERMISSION to create modules based on those games. They have been doing it with Pathfinder, Savage Worlds, Fate, and many others, and at no point have those agreements been exclusive. And FantasyGrounds has absolutely no clout to twist the arms of a giant like WotC into an exclusive agreement. Nor are they the type of company that would want that. They realize that they occupy a niche market for people who want to game on a posh VTT solution and are not interested in locking down the hobby for people who aren't in that niche.
- WotC did not lift a finger to enable these tools, or devote resources that could have been spent elsewhere. The FantasyGrounds community has been working since the launch of 5e to facilitate to process of DM's creating their own 5e modules (copy-pasting and parasing information from the books) that do exactly what these modules do. The problem was that they were illegal to share, and while creating your own version was legal, the process is painstakingly time-consuming for most DM's. I guarantee you that someone internal within FG already had these ready to go, and simply asked WotC for permission to polish them up to a publishable state. Heck, I was about half-way through compiling mine (with a few more typos due to bad OCR on the PDF's) when this product launched.
- If you have no interest in Fantasygrounds, or you think it's a scam to get you to pay $40 bucks for what you can get for free from Roll20, this product was never for you in the first place. If you haven't been convinced of its utility by now, I'm not going to persuade you, but keep in mind that they've been in the business for years charging these same prices and haven't gone broke, even after Roll20 hit the spotlight. And I say this as both a FG fanboy and a beta-backer for Roll20. Still, this is why you haven't seen WotC parading this as their big "Digital Tools" launch, and why they are not telling you that you HAVE to pay FG a bunch of money to use "Official Wizards Digital Tools". There just haven't been any other VTT's willing to put for the effort to create a product this polished. It does, however, signal that WotC is probably not working on their own internal VTT. Possibly a Character Creator, sure, but not a full solution to rival FantasyGrounds and Roll20.
- This move, if anything, shows that WotC is willing to let 3rd-party VTT's and fan-made/kickstarted projects work to create better and more agile platforms while letting WotC focus on the actual GAME instead of something they're clearly not that great at. I guarantee you that if the Roll20 or MapTools community or their internal devs managed to create a module as polished as what I just purchased on FG, WotC would be more than happy to negotiate an agreement to allow that too. They realize that Fantasygrounds is not everyone's favorite solution. But for people who were already using Fantasygrounds and were happy with their purchases, WotC's decision to allow FantasyGrounds to publish these modules is a HUGE sign of goodwill. It says "We're going to get out of the way and let you build upon our game rather than put up a bunch of legal walls to prevent you from porting your information to other platforms."
I honestly couldn't be happier. Is the price tag for the official D&D materials a little steep? Maybe. But you have to realize that for people who DM using these tools, the modules make the books NEARLY irrelevant (except for those who just love paper reference). For the ease of use that they provide to my campaign, $100 was a steal compared to the time I was spending copy-pasting and formatting data. In my opinion, they're comparable to PDF's in purpose, and 10 times as useful for people who were already using FantasyGrounds. All the reference material is right there at your fingertips, better organized, and easier to distribute to players at the table. If you're a player in one of these games and the DM has the modules, you never need to buy a book yourself, as all the character options, rules, and spells are available at a glance and you don't have to wait until another player's done reading the book to look something up. They're charging as much as they are because WotC (having ignored FantasyGrounds' pleas for the entirety of 4th edition) is naturally a little afraid that people who game on the platform could conceivable buy the module as a full substitute for a printed product.
akaddk wrote:
arnwolf666 wrote:
Farmer42 wrote:
Torg_Smith wrote:
Tautolitarian wrote:
Farmer42 wrote:
Farmer42 wrote:
Has Habro tought about to sell its own D&D NFC miniatures like Spyro: Skylanders, Disney Infinity and Ninentdo Amiboo?
Here my suggestion:
A free-to-play videogame about housing (managing a stronghold) and farming(+crafting), like a mixture of Sims medieval and Castleville (social net game by Zynga, the same creator of the famous Farmville). The DLCs bought with the miniatures could be PDFs of previous editions (AD&D monster compediums, for example) or mini-games could be played off-line.
paulstrait wrote:
The price is something each person evaluates for themselves. I make plenty of money and I can afford $250 purchase without worrying too much about it.
But it's a question of value for me, not affordability. And I don't think this is worth $250 to me. Very likely I'm not the target customer. Idk. Pukunui, Id rather spend the money on Lego starwars or a new pistol.
akaddk wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
paulstrait wrote:
So many people complained that there was no proper digital support, particularly 3rd party, for 4e and now 5e... And now that they are starting to surface, so many people are still complaining.
You don't have to pay for Roll20. You have to get the data into the system yourself, however. FG is a product you pay for, if you choose. Getting the 5E data into the system is no different. You can put it all in yourself for free, however you choose to do that.
Or... you can buy the digital versions (which have no requirements of you owning the physical versions) from SmiteWorks for the prices they have applied. It's your choice.
In my opinion, FG is a far superior product than Roll20. Paying the money for the additional convenience of having all of that content, as well as the extra content they are providing, is beyond worth it. I am elated that FG has licensing for this. They deserve it. Hell, Wizards copied FG when prototyping the 4e digital tools. They know it is a rock solid product.
Be happy that this is happening. It is a sign of things to come.
Coredump00 wrote:
Coredump00 wrote:
Since so many people are making the argument: "People wanted digital support, they got digital support. Why are they complaining?".
It's because this is all we'll get. The problem isn't that they've given us an option, the problem is that there will be no other option. It's an exclusive deal. And to some people this is not what they wanted.
Geez. It seems self-explanatory. It is not being entitled to want something and get it and not be satisfied with the execution because execution MATTERS.
abs1nth wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
akaddk wrote:
Coredump00 wrote:
abs1nth wrote:
abs1nth wrote:
I think I'm rather disapointed with the micro transaction approach for 5e with FG2. The cost of re-entry is too high, especially if you already own the core rule books.
Does anyone know if the modules are linked to a particular licence?
DaFlea wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Kravell wrote:
Kravell wrote:
edwin_su wrote:
abs1nth wrote:
paulstrait wrote:
arnwolf666 wrote:
Kravell wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
*Looks at the price*
*walks away slowly*
That's more than what I paid for my books! **** that noise!
ssvegeta555 wrote:
I bought the ultimate license for FG a while back but I don't use it as a VTT (I don't like the UI that much and at least as far as I could find I couldn't set up encounters ahead of time) but I did manually enter the monster stats for HotDQ (a session ahead of time I add any new ones needed) and use it for combat tracking. It does do some PC math but you can't really make a full character inside of it, like if you choose a dragonborn you get a text listing their resistances and breath weapon based on ancestry but no option to choose the ancestry and have it add those traits in a convenient manner. It also doesn't calculate save DCs for casters just lists the formula for them. The only things the book packs do is pre-fill all the data for you and add tokens and artwork. I do like the 5e theme they included as it does liven up the UI a bit visually but doesn't do anything to improve on it.
Of course I felt that Hero Labs wasn't any better, and I found the pricing poing on RealmWorks way too high especially when there's no local copy or set license, it's sub only and like DDI you only have access to the material (that you pay for) as long as you have a sub/their servers are running. This was why I chose Fantasy Grounds over RealmWorks.
I'd still prefer a full and dedicated character buildler for 5e though, one that supports houseruling and custom races, classes, feats, etc. Preferably one that's like FG and allows offline use and you get and keep your material you pay for rather than some online-only subscription base. In the meantime though FG is at least usable and tolerable as a DM. While I bought the ultimate license for the flexibility of allowing online play with players for what I currently use it for a single user license would have been enough.
Jeez but some of you guys are dense...I mean complaining about the $50 price point that they set for each book I understand, but getting into the ethical issues of this and lack of transparency?
WotC's internal digital tool development process fell apart due to its own ineptitude. The people involved in testing can attest to that. They couldn't be any more transparent about that without publically trashing the Trapdoor devs.
Then along comes FantasyGrounds, which has been around for 10 years and sports its own fully functional community-developed 5e ruleset and the ability for GM's to create private versions of the very same products that just went on sale. They go to WotC and say "Hey, we've already internally developed a couple of 5e plugins that work with our VTT using information from your books. It's perfectly legal for GM's using our platform to duplicate this process, but we'd love to save them some time and have permission to legally distribute our copy. Do you mind letting us do that for our fans if we give you the lion's share of the profit? It's your material so obviously you'd still be able to use it for any of your own internal digital tools, or license it to any of our competitors if they chose to create a similar product."
And WotC says "Uhh...okay. What do I have to lose?"
Now at what point in that discussion does WotC need to stop, hold a big pow-wow, and ask the forums or twitter whether they should accept the offer? And what could you possibly want to say to change the outcome other than "Waaaah I don't wanna use FantasyGrounds and if I can't have it, no one can!" ?
FantasyGrounds isn't holding your game hostage. It's not an exclusive deal and it doesn't even have a character builder like the one people are thinking of, so it's not preventing WotC from developing digital tools, or preventing WotC from being approached by anyone with a more solid business plan than "Let me just upload a character builder that illegally distributes WotC material and then whine when I get a Cease and Desist!"
So obviously the initial thing everyone is spotting is the highest price for getting it all. I personally was pretty shocked. However, from what I understand so far... the "ultimate" packages are giving you everything you need to use and run the game for your friends ... FOREVER. Am I wrong about that? The price rage is worth it if you run on line games IMO.
I don't run on line D&D games. I run at an actual table. For me, this product isn't worth the purchase at this time. Although, if I moved away from my group for some reason I might consider it. Since I don't run games on line right now though, I am looking for other forms of digital support that could make playing at a table a little easier (ie pdf books, digital compendiums that have item - npc or monster stat blocks like DDI had, etc). Anything that helps the game run smoother at the table for me.
I do hope there will be alternative forms of digital support to come. For now I'm just happy with what I have, playing d&d.
Tautolitarian wrote:
Sands666 wrote:
I wonder why so many people seem to be upset that the tools aren't free. The people working at FG also need to pay their bills and eat.
Gnarl wrote:
Gnarl wrote:
Tautolitarian wrote:
paulstrait wrote:
DaFlea wrote:
Tautolitarian wrote:
paulstrait wrote:
Honestly, I don't want a VTT. I want a character builder. FantasyGrounds doesn't do that.
I had heard rumors that Hero Lab was going to get 5e support. I had also heard that they have pretty much done all the work, but they can't release it without a license.
OK, fine. So, WotC ... this is one voice saying that is what I want. Are there others on here who want that as well?
About a year ago, when I decided I wanted to D&D with my mates over the internet on a virtual tabletop, I looked into what was out there. RPtools , didnt have the time sync to set up my own server. VirtualTable top on steam...way to clunky to set up but neat to look at. Then i came across Fantasy Grounds. I really liked the tokens keeping track of attacks and damage....but that was it, it was to much 'Heroquest' and not enough 'Miniature Gaming' .
You see, on an aside-I am a Ral Partha over Grenadier guy (dating myself), I dont want those plastic bases, nor the crappy plastic molded stuff, give me back Julie Guthrie and I will paint those all day long. But I digress, though that is the segway into my point.
Eventually I found Roll20, I can make the maps any way I want them, I am not stuck with the templates of FG. I can make them as real as I want. And my 'tokens' are nearly as good as PnP miniatures, not some silly circle with a goofy cartoon face.(EDIT: I confused FG with D20 pro here, which I had also tried out at the time). The immersion is there now. Sure it took some time to get all my macros set, but now they are done, I pay 5 bucks a month, get my perks, and even donate to some of the better token artists for stuff when I need it. I'd say my campaign costs are less than 50 bucks total for the last 6 months, sans rulebooks, and we play 2 nights a week.
By comparison, FG would have got me going quicker, but the end result would not have kept my six players chomping at the bit and eager for friday and saturday night...every week!
Wont be getting my money for this one
but hey, it's probably good for the new kids. hell we used to play 'dot' D&D way back when before miniatures were stocked in hobby stores and not just a mail order thing ;)
EDIT: also, Dynamic lighting> FG, they need to add that feature to the basic cost
Radaceus wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Enough about me and mie
the elephant over there in the corner has something to add:
What should occur is
A) Wotc builds or buys their own VTT, allowing a 'proof of purchase' for those who have purchased the 'real' product to be used, or selling customer the rights to a PDF and Downloadable imagery to be used on said VTT
B) Wotc allows all VTT's to a commision for onselling to customers the rights to virtual use of their product. Also allowing a 'proof of purchase' option as stated in A
So first I have a question for all the Fantacy Grounds users, because I've never used it. Does it have Apple and Android support? Can I use my tablet as easily as I use my PC?
The reason I ask is because Roll20 has this (its not perfect I admit, but with practice its great). When Morningstar was coming, it was going to have everything across platforms, and if it had lived up to promises, I would have bought in without thinking twice.
If I can't use my tablet which I use for everything now (including both RTT and VTT experiences) then I won't likely switch. The price doesn't bother me at all. And the micro transactions, though they tick me off in other situations, make sense here. Only want to have clerics and undead? You can do that. So cost isn't the problem, since its comparable to the cost of the books (and yes that makes sence to me because I'm not paying for the book, I'm paying for the content). Sure double paying would suck, but if I had trusted that something would eventually come out and just used the Basic rules for free, double paying wouldn't be an issue.
So, yay for WotC for getting some digital support, but boo if there is no mobile support (again any critisism is held until someone tells me one way or the other about FG's stance on mobile devices).
Radaceus wrote:
I like having the basic rules pdf available on my phone. Anyway I can get something similar with FG?
pukunui wrote:
rookrock wrote:
The problem with this entire project is that it defies the very nature of the game. The entire point of it was to get a group of friends TOGETHER around the same table at the same time. I tried the demo and I wasn't impressed. I would rather sit at the table with my friends and loved ones than being treated like i'm in another MMO.
But hey, that's me. If people want to spend money for the same product twice, that's their bag.
What would be nice is if WotC would actually release a character generator like they did in 4e. That actually would be useful.
Jaden.Shadowcraft wrote:
Jaden.Shadowcraft wrote:
Jaden.Shadowcraft wrote:
Jaden.Shadowcraft wrote:
Radaceus wrote:
Jaden.Shadowcraft wrote:
For the record. I would gladly pay the same amount of money for the same content in Roll20. Just saying. My personal preference is for Roll20 and although Fantasy grounds has a few nice features it does not have everything I am looking for. I am also saying that if you gave me Fantasy Grounds and all the D&D content for free I would still chose to pay money to Roll20.
Fallstorm wrote:
Fallstorm wrote:
bnickelsen wrote:
I also would rather sit around the table, than to use a VTT. and my group actually does just that when I am a player and they skype me in so I can play along, But because I no longer live near them I write up in VTT (roll20 plug again here ;) ) so they can enjoy my campaign.
another thing, to touch on is this idea of paying for the books again!...Why can I not use my own? I will of course, and am not afraid to spend a few minutes doing so, setting up my campaign. So you see the marketing model doesn't work for those like me, but again, it will work for some others who have the cash and lack the time and even perhaps the imagination to write up a campaign. Sadly, I feel those who rely on everything pre-done for them will not be long time customers for various reasons the least of which are support features
In my previous post I have mentioned the NFCs miniatures from different franchises: Spyro: Skylanders, Disney Infinity and Nintendo Amiboo. This morning I have readen about a fourth one coming soon, Lego Dimensions.
I say it again: maybe the future of D&D are NFC (Near Field Comunication) minitaures.
* why not to try a videogame, a crossover between Transfomers and rpg Gamma World (adding alien races from d20 Future and characters from G.I.Joe)?
LuisCarlos17f wrote:
SO ...no mobile device support what so ever if I'm reading FGs FAQ correctly. Seems to be a fair tool, though a bit on $$$ side. My group actually meets around the table. I use MapTool to project maps on the table with real minis (and real dice). My Players mostly want a Digital Char/Ref sheet they can pull up on their tablets (laptops take up a lot of table realestate) and have their char, stats, spells and powers at their finger tips. Gonna run this past them but I don't think they will bite. DungeonScape was looking alomost tailor made for my group, so we weren't surprised when that relationship fell apart. Really WotC, you need to work on your 3rd party relationship skills and since this is 2nd or 3rd time this has happened I think I'm safe to point at WotC.
Code Monkey get up get coffee
Code Monkey goto job
Code Monkey have boring meeting
With boring manager Rob
Code Monkey like Fritos
Code Monkey like Tab and Mt Dew
Code Monkey Like you...
I've used all manner of digital character generators, for countless systems, for many years. Like 3.x, 4e, Pathfinder, Shadowrun, Hero, GURPS, M&M, WoD, SW, just to name a few.
But you know what system I'm finding I just don't need one for at this time? 5e. I don't feel character creation in 5e is at all scattered or complicated enough to warrant it. At least not at this time. Maybe somewhere down the road when more books spread options around more? Sure.
Hmmm, I guess with no phone/tablet support, I'm out! Thanks anyway WotC, keep up the good work of eventually getting there
Also I love 5e, so great work on that too ;)
Radaceus wrote:
rookrock wrote:
Coredump00 wrote:
Hrall wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Now WOTC would allow FG to ive us a Package deal on the full thing that would be helpful.
rookrock wrote:
Larac wrote:
A lot of presumptions are being thrown around. SmiteWorks has the license to produce products with the D&D name. Until we see the actual agreement (which will likely never happen), anything and everything beyond that is pure speculation.
Business is a 2-way street. SmiteWorks had plenty to say in the deal, I assure you. FG was already successful prior to this. Sure, this is really going to put them on the map, but they also wouldn't bend over to take it from WotC.
And lest we not forget, these products are specific to SmiteWorks and Fantasy Grounds. If you have no interest in FG, then you shouldn't have any issues whatsoever. As a matter of fact, you should be elated that WotC is already showing greater signs than 4e of allowing official products with 5e from 3rd party software companies. They a) listened to the community, and b) realized that officially licensed software products are best suited in the hands of competent and talented software companies with a successful history.
Coredump00 wrote:
DaFlea wrote:
I just found out that the next version of Fantasy Grounds will be made with the Unity engine...
This should mean great new things for FG, digital tabletops, and likely D&D.
So, I'm a bit confused here. People keep saying that the $100 cost for the WotC content is optional, on the grounds that you can just input it yourself if you want. I see no reason to believe that is legal. Copying is copying whether I re-type it, take a picture with my phone, or extract it from a PDF. I'm not allowed to photocopy my PHB and give each of my players a copy. Why would I be allowed to re-type my PHB and distribute it via Fantasy Grounds? Playing 5e via FG appears to require a $100 investement, for the license to distribute the content.
Furthermore, the software appears to be available for precisely 0% of the platforms I have available at a gaming session. It doesn't run on any mobile device and appears to be Windows/Mac only.
Additionally, it appears that users can only update their characters when actively connected to the GM? I get why, but that seems really annoying.
All told, I'm seeing a $250 price tag for a product I can't use that doesn't do what I want. I'm rather disappointed. Of course, nobody's forcing me to buy it, so it's not like I am any worse off than I have been.
That said, if WotC wants to know what I will buy: license this content to Roll20 via subscription. I cannot afford $100 all at once right now. I can afford $5 a month, and I'll probably keep my subscription over the course of more than 20 months. Maybe even $10 a month. $10 a month is even probably fair for a book or two worth of digital content a year. I still have to buy the actual book to use the content, so it's not like you'll be losing revenue on book sales from it.
Alficles wrote:
Alficles wrote:
Coredump00 wrote:
Hrall wrote:
Hrall wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Coredump00 wrote:
I'm not trying to be difficult here, but can someone summarize for me why any of us should care whether WOTC tendered an offer to Fantasy Grounds or vice versa?
DemoMonkey wrote:
DaFlea wrote:
I've seen quite a few "official digital product" sentiments in recent posts and don't feel like quoting them all. This isn't accurate. There was no exclusive licensing done. This is the FIRST digital product for 5e support (though not the frist digital product wth 5e elements as we have Neverwinter Online and Sword Coast Legends coming out but those aren't used for playing the TT version of 5e).
Likely we'll see other licensed products come out but they will take time. It's not like a company can just produce something, plop down money to buy a license, then do what they want. They (likely) have to propose what they want to do, submit a working version of that proposal, then have WotC review it and determine if it meets their standards for a 5e licensed product, then their legal teams hammer out the details of a license. Then it gets polished and announced/released to the public for purchase.
"...what seems much more likely, is that FG cameto WotC..." Whose the one making assumptions? Why does that seem more likely.
Grazel wrote:
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Grazel wrote:
A new Titleist 915 driver (that's one club) is $499. An awful lot of dedicated roleplaying hobbyists are either extremely cheap or flat broke. (Not speaking of anyone in this thread, of course, just generalizing...)
IF you play by VTT, this seems like a good value. The individual subscription is cheap ($3.99/month? Is that right?). However, for me, "free" on Roll20 is even cheaper, so the only way I'd bite on FG is if I wanted the automation offered by the licensed packs. Is it worth $100 for automated character generation and monster stats? It is for me! I hate doing the data entry to build monsters in Roll20. I'm not rich, but I do have a good career, and realistically even a couple hours of my time for data entry is worth a hundred bucks...every session! I'll gladly pay that price on a one-time-basis for the ability to build encounters, dungeons and adventures simply by dragging monsters onto a map. Even if I were still playing at a tabletop, I'd happily pay someone a one-time fee of $100 to build or transcribe all my stat blocks for me until I roll my last d20. Doubt there'd be many takers for that, though.
This pretty much removes all the pain-points from DMing for me. It's a miracle of technology! It's worth the price and then some, to me.
It should go without saying, though, that if you don't play by VTT, or if you enjoy the data entry or have a lot of unpriced time on your hands, or even if you don't like that stuff but don't dislike it enough to make it go away for a hundred bucks, forever, then this product will not be a good value for you. You should not purchase it. But all this talk about IP and marginal costs of digital products is irrelevant: Those costs are the business's problem. If WotC can't produce a printed book at a cost that allows them to sell it at the price I'm willing to pay, that's their problem. I don't care about their costs; I care about the product's perceived value to me and the price I will pay for it. Likewise, if Smiteworks can produce an infinite number of copies of their product for $0 after the first, that's good for them but nothing to me. I care about whether the perceived value of the product equals or exceeds the price they are charging for it. The end.
My only concern about FG D&D is the active population. If there are enough takers that I can easily find good players and DMs, I'm in. I won't be an early adopter, though. The price is high enough, for me, that I need to see that critical mass before I jump. That's because the player network is a big part of the value for me. The software itself, though? It looks brilliant and easily worth the price they're asking. For me.
ChrisCarlson wrote:
RCanine wrote:
AaronOfBarbaria wrote:
Grazel wrote:
Finieous wrote:
After taking a closer look at the rulesset in FG2 I think it discourages house rules a bit too much. For example, they hard coded the healing and resting rules into the system. Sure, it's nice to right click and simply click on long rest and have the combat tracker modify everyones hit points and spells, but there certainly isn't any alternative.
dmgorgon wrote:
dmgorgon wrote:
Dracones wrote:
Torg_Smith wrote:
As another point of view I have been playing D&D (actually Warhammer Fantasy mostly) on Fantasy Grounds for only a few years having never touched any of the various pen and paper systems previously. While a lot of people (that I have seen on this and other forums) consider in person gaming to be a better gameplay, I am the reverse – I would never have attempted the valuable use of my time otherwise.
I’ve only tried a handful of systems on Fantasy Grounds (all having various levels of automation) and this 5e version is the most complete. The drops from the modules are instances of the modules so you are free to modify the results on the fly for special circumstances or house rules without changing anything in the modules themselves (same with the monsters).
I’ve found it to be fun without the “Oh, God, my head hurts” when 4e was attempted or the “OMG stop boring us” when the experienced in the group tried to explain Pathfinder. I’m only mentioning this to define where the value of my opinion may sit in your own spectrum – as with anything, to each their own.
So yes, the people in our group all spent the money on the Fantasy Grounds modules and as early as this is in the release I found the character creation is fast and untaxing, the system simple enough to adapt to and the functions in the VTT don’t take away from the scenario.
We have historically used Fantasy Grounds as a place to store character information in the relevant sheets, roll the dice with the results needing a lot of manual input (this has been our choice) and for the visual aspects of the maps and situational placing. The 5e modules do this and just automate a little more than our norm – so a plus that hasn’t inconvenienced us yet (another plus because most things do).
In short we are lazy new players with no history of pen-paper encounters (so no nostalgic bias) who are geographically distant. The system works for us.
Any word yet on a diferent VTT?
I am not really interested in these online tools. I play in person, and it wouldn't be as much fun.